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Sensing Murder
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In your "Sensing Murder" articles the allegedly rebuttals are technically ‘inadmissible’. They are not worth anything. They are ‘generalities.’ Rebuttals are when each issue, one by one is specifically isolated and dealt with showing that the psychic could not have identified it names and places and using psychic skills.
“Mostly they just cheat. It's a trick. The only difference between psychics and magicians is that the magician will tell you it's a trick.” That would be regarded as inadmissible, descriptive, lacking in specificities, lacking in substance.
You just cannot state words to the effect, well the crew could have related the information to the psychics. You will have to PROVE that. When a psychic specifically identifies names and Rebecca states that came from the psychic him/herself you just cannot state, oh well that’s fraud!
Your objection is technically inadmissible in professional debate. Instead, work out the probabilities of that coming by chance. Now, if you add all the correctly identified names, issues, localities and work out the probabilities AND failure by the debunker to show HOW fraud took place, then it would be impossible for the psychic to come up with those names by chance. Victor Zammit
We notice on your site Victor in your article regarding "Sensing Murder" you state the following:
And we love how you characterise those that don't accept your view:
Perhaps you could produce some of this empirical evidence, as legal maneuvers won't do it for us.
I read with interest your site. I myself had a reading with Deb Webber, she never told me anything, I told her everything and she give me a reading through that. So to prove that maybe she was faking I called her several months later and made out I was pregnant with triplets, owned a hairdressing salon and was with husband no 2, the 1st had passed away. She said one of the triplets would be smaller than the other 2, I would sell my business and invest the money and then work as a mobile h/dresser or for someone else and my dead 1st husband set me up with hubby no 2 and that money would be tight and I would have to get baby clothes from charity. This was all fictional, lies I gave her and yet she still managed to read for me. Says a lot doesn't it. I bet you I could ring her next month and say I'm a clown in a circus and she would be able to give me a reading from that. She's amazing isn't she. I would love to hear what you think.
Hi Melissa, thanks for your comments on Deb Webber. I couldn't agree with you more. The client provides all the information to these fake psychics and they then just feed it back to them, a method known as 'cold reading'. I guess that most psychics work on the assumptions that only believers consult them, that the believer will do their utmost to find some meaning in their vague pronouncements and that those of a skeptical nature wouldn't waste their money.
I've often thought of performing the experiment that you've tried but I wasn't sure I could fool the psychic into believing that I really thought he or she had real powers. I've also thought of writing some bogus letter to those psychic pages in the likes of the 'Woman's Weekly' magazine but what would it prove? Only I would know that she was talking rubbish, and I already believe that, but to all the readers it would be another example of her psychic powers.
I love that you were skeptical enough to question where the information from your first reading really came from and to go on and check out your theory by calling her again with a completely bogus persona. Brilliant.
Deb Webber was in New Zealand recently doing a few shows and one Wellington newspaper journalist ridiculed her and noted:
A number of years ago US skeptic and magician James Randi setup a scam to demonstrate that the media doesn't check its stories when it comes to the paranormal, supernatural etc. He got an actor to pretend that he could channel the spirit of some long dead person. The actor did public shows in Aussie and went on TV shows like 60 Minutes etc to demonstrate his skills. He was a big hit. Then Randi broke the news that it was all a hoax and everyone was very embarrassed. No one checked the claims that the channeller made, either regarding his descriptions of his past life or of his real claims to fame in the USA. It would have been simple to determine that this guy didn't exist in the US and that everything he claimed was a lie, but no one did. It proved that the media just pump this crap out as entertainment. They often don't take it seriously but unfortunately many viewers do.
However the really amazing thing was that even though Randi and the actor went on 60 Minutes, TV News etc to reveal that it was all a hoax, the actor later revealed that he met several people that refused to accept his confession. They came up to him on the street and apologised for those that attacked his channelling skills. He replied "But I am a fake. I'm just an actor", but they said that they still believed in him. Even the evidence of fraud and a confession is not enough for some believers. It's depressing to think that people this stupid are still allowed to vote and serve on juries.
I assume you've looked at our transcripts for "Sensing Murder" involving Deb Webber. We were going to write up a few more episodes but I'm not sure whether it would be worth our time. As the Randi bit above shows, a million transcripts wouldn't convince a true believer and our example episodes are probably sufficient to convince those of a skeptical nature.
Your site is great, keep up the good work!
Thanks for your positive comments on our site. We're just putting the finishing touches on an essay looking at Magnetic Therapy. Once that's finished we'll look at writing a bit on fundamentalists. Possibly starting with Ian Wishart. He's written quite a bit on Creationism, Intelligent Design, evil homosexuals etc in his Investigate magazine. Then there's the Destiny Church and the Seventh Day Adventists with their "the End is Nigh" cries, etc. There is just so many to pick on.
I hadn't seen that site you recommended (Extremeprophetic.com) and thought it must be a parody site when I read its homepage. But no, they were serious. Just how gullible, unintelligent or desperate do you have to be to believe this crap? I guess that's the advantage with religion, you don't need good reasons to believe something, just blind faith.
Hi, I just read your excellent expose of 'Sensing Murder'. I was wondering whether I could use it (with credits given) at badpsychics.com. We've done a little bit on Deb Webber and your article would help to reinforce her lack of psychic abilities.
Hi Roz, certainly you may use it. We're happy to play a small part in helping to expose these fake psychics and to encourage people to think critically about what they are seeing.
Thanks heaps John. Great to find a kindred spirit (if you'll pardon the expression) across the Tasman.
Hey there, I'm a member of the Australian Skeptics and wrote some articles here about the Australian version of "Sensing Murder". (I assume your version couldn't possibly be worse than the crap we had here)... I'd like to know a few things about the NZ version of "Sensing Murder"... How many seasons has it had? We only had one season (6 eps) in Australia and they only showed them at random non rating times. Is it still running? (I'm guessing so, though ours isn't) Are the cases honestly "low profile"? As I've said in my articles and on the Wikipedia entry, the Australian cases were all very high profile. Before I deleted it as "non-original content", someone had posted excepts from the NZ show's promotional material in which the producer claimed they were all low profile cases. Have any of the cases been solved since the show? (Regardless of whether the psychics did it)
Hi Christopher, it's good to hear that there are others out there that can see through the crap that is "Sensing Murder". Although we haven't heard anyone say they thought the program actually solved any murder, plenty have said that the police are following up positive leads from the show and most believe the psychics were amazing in what they revealed. Depressing really. I'm continually surprised at how easily some people are fooled. It's a great pity that we don't teach critical thinking in our schools. I just hope I never end up in a court of law. Imagine if people that can't see the flaws in programs like "Sensing Murder" made up your jury.
Thankfully we haven't had any hate mail regarding our article.
And now on to your questions:
How many seasons has it had?
Only one series I believe, made up of six episodes. Although they didn't mention it, I think the Aussie series and the NZ series were both run as one series here, with alternating countries each week. The format was identical. I'm sure that anything you wrote about the Aussie version would apply to ours as well. They were run in prime time, had quite a following among idiots and the NZ version even won an award at our annual TV awards show.
Is it still running?
No it's not, although according to the following info I discovered on the Net, we have a new series to look forward to this year: TV2's first run of Sensing Murder proved a hit with New Zealand audiences. Series II returns to our screens in 2007 with more chilling episodes...
Are the cases honestly "low profile"?
Difficult to say really. I'm sure they would have been big news at the time, but I personally couldn't remember any of the cases. That's not to say that others couldn't. They did happen one, two or nearly three decades ago, but then murders weren't so common back then, we are a small country and many people do tend to remember them, especially if you live in the city where they occurred as psychic Kelvin Cruickshank did for one of the cases.
Have any of the cases been solved since the show?
No, none have been solved to my knowledge. I'm sure the media would have made a big deal of it if any had been solved. I also guarantee they won't start the next series by recapping what real progress has been made on the cases from the previous series. If any claims are made, they will be as bogus and misleading as the show proper.
I noticed on the Wikipedia page for 'Sensing Murder' that it only mentions the names of three psychics. I have 8 episodes on DVD — 3 NZ and 5 Aussie. In these episodes, psychics Kelvin Cruickshank, Debbie Malone, Sue Nicholson and Deb Webber featured in the NZ series. Psychics Debbie Malone, Scott Russell Hill, Deb Webber, Ruth Wilson and Barbara Neilson featured in the Australian series. Debbie Malone and Deb Webber appeared in both the Australian and the NZ series. There may have been others in other episodes.
I am writing with reference to your comments regarding Sensing Murder. Why don't you just calm down a little and have some faith somethings can't be rationally explained. Leave some room in your heart for mystery.
Hi Jane, you say, "have some faith some things can't be rationally explained." I think you've missed the point of our essay. It was to show that what the psychics appeared to do on 'Sensing Murder' can most definitely be explained rationally. We don't need to have faith in their psychic abilities because we can hear the TV production crew giving them the answers. This is called cheating. We can watch them consistently fail to come up with the names of the victims, or their family and most importantly, the name of the murderer. We can hear the host of the show lying to us and misleading us. There is nothing on the show that can't be explained by reason and critical thinking. Admittedly there are times when the psychic appears to say something surprising but we are never shown what he or she says before or after this statement. The producers of shows like this blankly refuse to give skeptics access to the entire TV footage. We only get to see what was edited for TV. If the psychic abilities are real, then what are the producers hiding?
The most important thing that should be realised about the 'Sensing Murder' show, and numerous others like it, is that the psychics didn't solve one single murder. Not even one. Not even close. They didn't provide one single clue that the police could make use of.
So what has 'Sensing Murder' really achieved? Out of 12 murder cases, not one case has been solved in NZ or Australia. If their psychic abilities are real, why didn't they find at least one murderer? This is a 100% failure rate. There is not one well-documented case worldwide of a psychic solving any crime, and even if there was, there is no denying that none of the 'Sensing Murder' cases have been solved. Even if you do believe that psychic abilities exist, it is perfectly obvious that they weren't used on 'Sensing Murder'. Even if you do support the notion of psychics, there is no good reason to support those featured in 'Sensing Murder'.
You also say in your comment, "Leave some room in your heart for mystery."
If someone stole your life savings, would you be impressed if the police said they weren't going to try and find who did it, instead telling you to "leave some room in your heart for mystery". I suspect you would tell them that you don't want the thief's identity to be a mystery, you want to know who he is and to recover your money. Even with investigation the thief's identity may remain a mystery, but I'm sure you would at least try to resolve it, wanting to determine the cause of your loss if at all possible. Likewise when psychics say they can solve crimes I want to investigate the truth behind their claims. Just like your life savings would be important to you, the fact of whether psychics are scamming me is important to me. I assume that you also would not like to be scammed over some matter.
Today's mysteries remain as mysteries simply because we have not yet solved them, not because we have elected to ignore them, not because we have consciously decided to let them remain as mysteries. We would still be living in caves, afflicted by innumerable diseases and believing in untold superstitions if we had refused to challenge mysteries. And anyway, why are you happy for psychic abilities to remain a mystery, wouldn't you rather science investigate it and declare it real? If psychic abilities really exist they can only benefit from scientific investigation. Instead of being ridiculed, they would be respected. Thus I'm always suspicious of people's motives when they say we shouldn't investigate something. Are you afraid that if science shone it's light on psychics, not only would the mystery disappear, but psychics also?
You also suggest that I calm down a little. I assure you that I am not in the slightest bit angry or agitated over psychics, but I am disappointed and dismayed that intelligent people believe in them, in the same way that intelligent people from past generations believed in fairies and leprechauns. Rather than use faith to reach conclusions as to what is real, as you suggest, we need to use reason.
We design our aircraft and our medicines using reason, not faith. We hope our juries reach decisions using reason, not faith. We hope doctors examine us using reason, not faith, so why should we believe a psychic when he demands we use faith rather than reason to accept his claims? Why the reversal? Shouldn't this make you deeply suspicious?
You may be right Jane, maybe psychics are real, but I'm afraid nothing that they have produced in support of their claims has convinced me, whereas there is a large amount of evidence that indicates psychic ability doesn't exist. I'm not saying that all psychics are cheats, a large proportion probably honestly believe they have some ability, but I believe that not only are they fooling some members of the public, they are fooling themselves as well.
I honestly wish psychics could solve crimes, then we wouldn't need detectives, we wouldn't have unsolved murders or missing children. And only real idiots would commit crimes, having forgotten that psychics would finger them immediately. Crime would be almost non-existent. What a wonderful society that would be. It's strange that psychics haven't already brought this about. After all, they have the power. Don't they?
Hi John, thank you for your comments. I believe that a certain number people of people do have the ability to see thing's, in fact I know they can. The reason I am so sure is that from the age of about 5 or 6, I have had visions that have been 100% correct each and every time. I am now 43 and only last year did I eventually build up the confidence to discuss this with religious people, one an Archbishop and the other a Monk/Priest, both distinguished men have dedicated their lives to God. Much to my relief both trusted me as being genuine and assured me that I was having visions (as I already knew) and the Church had known about such things for 2,000 years. They did warn me to take never to take money for it, not to feel special and in fact work all the harder in my relationship with God.
Hi Jane. I can't resist commenting on a couple of things you mentioned. My experience is that psychics and mediums love to say that skeptics have tested them and can't find any trickery, and that they've helped the police solve crimes, but these are all blatant lies I'm afraid. Most psychics refuse to be tested. The very few psychics that have submitted to real testing have either failed miserably or have been caught cheating. Likewise no psychic has ever provided evidence that they have assisted the police. There are many that can prove they have offered advice to the police, but none can prove that this helped solve a crime.
Yes, I agree that some police have used psychics, as have some governments. But no matter what belief someone may have, whether it be prayer, numerology, astrology, divination, reading tea leaves, palm reading, analysing chicken entrails, channelling aliens, voodoo etc, you will be able to find a policeman or government official somewhere in the world that has used this method to try and solve a problem. Chinese officials use Feng Shui. Just because someone is willing to try something different doesn't mean it works. For example someone in Africa could claim that: For many years Police have called on and used people who analyse chicken entrails, Governments even use them! Would you suggest that our police start using chickens just because police in some African villages used them? If they could prove chickens worked that would be different, and so likewise people must first prove that police find psychics effective, not just that they have used their services. I have read scientific surveys that show that psychics employed by police departments in the US are ineffective, disruptive and actually hinder the investigations.
I'm sure you "believe that a certain number of people do have the ability to see thing's". However I don't believe they do. Think of a Muslim that says their god Allah saved their child from some disaster, or a Hindu that says their god Shiva saved their child from another disaster. Would you believe them? This is no different from a psychic saying their advice saved a child from some disaster. Before you believed the Muslim or the Hindu you would demand some evidence that their god was involved, so why not demand evidence from the psychic as well, don't simply take their word for it. You may reply that you've personally seen evidence of psychic abilities, but the Muslim and Hindu would say they have also personally seen evidence of their god's action. You would then reply that they are mistaking certain natural events as god's actions when in fact their imaginary god wasn't involved at all. Their child survived for perfectly rational reasons that didn't involve Allah or Shiva. I would then add that you are also mistaking certain events as psychic when in fact psychic abilities weren't involved at all.
Where a Hindu would say he can see Shiva's handiwork, you would say you can see psychic ability and I would say I can see neither. Which one of us is correct? Which one presents the best case? I see no good evidence that either Shiva or psychic abilities exist, therefore I believe it is reasonable and logical to assume they don't. If new evidence is provided then I will revise my decision, but until then I must put Shiva and psychics in the box alongside fairies, ghosts, leprechauns, demons and healing crystals. I don't believe in Shiva, Allah or psychics for probably the same reasons that you don't believe in Shiva or Allah.
You say you eventually built up the confidence to discuss your psychic abilities with religious people. By all means ask for a religious interpretation, but why only religious people? Did you also ask a skeptic familiar with psychics and ESP (extrasensory perception) or a neuroscientist or a parapsychologist or a doctor or an ordinary psychologist if they could offer an explanation as to what might be happening? As you said, both religious men had dedicated their lives to God, and therefore not into research into the mind, science, ESP or even critical thinking. These are men that are so utterly convinced as to the truth of their belief that they have made a career of it. I have always been amazed when people who develop a doubt over God's existence attempt to resolve this by going to their priest and asking him if God really does exist. Why even bother? You should know that they are naturally going to answer yes. In a similar way they are naturally going to say that what is happening in your mind is to do with your 'relationship with God'. As they said, the Bible is full of people having visions that are caused by God. So they are not going to say there is a rational explanation for yours and risk having you conclude that maybe there was a rational explanation for theirs as well, that God wasn't really involved. You said 'They did warn me to never to take money for it', so how did they explain all the famous psychics and mediums making millions from their visions? Why isn't God punishing them? And if God isn't going to punish psychics, why aren't you making a few dollars? Did you know that James Randi is offering one million US dollars to anyone who can demonstrate psychic abilities? I also wonder why your religious advisors didn't tell you that God actually commands that believers in him have nothing to do with people having visions such as mediums and psychics. In the Bible Leviticus 19:31 commands:
"Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them". Even worse, they should have warned you of the penalty of using these abilities. Leviticus 20:27 commands:
"A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death".
Why didn't these distinguished men tell you these things? Were these men that have dedicated their lives to God not familiar with these commandments or have they taken it upon themselves to decide that God couldn't really have meant these things, and have therefore hidden them from you? So are you having a relationship with God or the priest's version of God? Either way they have told you what was required to keep you in the Church. God forbid that you would go off and ask a skeptic or read a book like Carl Sagan's 'The Demon Haunted World'.
A few years ago an associate of mine thought he saw a UFO, but luckily I was there and I was able to explain that it was actually the planet Venus and its apparent erratic movement was caused by a perception problem called autokinesis. It is simply a visual illusion that can occur when you stare at a small, fixed light source for an extended period of time. Lacking my explanation there was a good chance that he would have formed the opinion that he had seen a flying saucer or at least something that couldn't be explained, a mystery. Another example is our ability to see patterns in all manner of things, like animal shapes in clouds. There are many ways the mind can fool us into thinking we have experienced something that is different to what really happened. Like the UFO and the clouds, we need to have access to the rational explanations otherwise we end up thinking we have seen flying saucers, faces in clouds and in case of ESP, visions. Maybe the priests are right, maybe not, but you'll never know until you listen to alternative theories and rationally decide which offers the best explanation. And as I've said, we need to use reason to reach conclusions and not faith, our head and not our heart. As important as our emotions and feelings are, they can lead us astray more often than not.
I'm not denying that many psychics etc really are trying to help. I don't doubt their sincerity and motivation, I just see the method that they use as useless. Think of every Hindu praying to their gods for world peace. Their goal is admirable, but I believe their method of achieving it will be ineffective, simply because I believe their gods don't exist to hear their prayers. You probably agree. Yet Hindus and psychics both swear by their beliefs, disappointed that others can't see that they're real. But until Hindus can show me that their gods exist, I won't be praying to them, and until psychics can show me that their abilities are real, I won't be using their services.
Sorry Jane, but I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Like ghosts, alien abduction and healing crystals, I have not seen any evidence that psychic ability is real. In some respect your religious advisors have told you to suppress your visions and concentrate on your relationship with God. My advice would be similar, treat your 'visions' the same way I treat mine, as your mind creating images of the future based on your experiences and knowledge, that sometimes will be correct and sometimes false, and concentrate on this life, not the next.
Sorry, but you sound like a conceited bore! Get a life and a real job!! Insulting others doesn't make you smart! Where did you get your education? What degrees of higher education to you have? Bet it's not from an ivy league university or even a real school? You sound like you have some kind of inferiority complex. Seek a real professional, such a psychologist or other mental health provider.
Ronda, you state that 'insulting others doesn't make you smart!', yet your email seems to be made up of insult after insult. You insult me regarding my life, my job, my intelligence. You call me a conceited bore. You insult my education, accuse me of not even going to a real school, of having an inferiority complex and suggest I seek professional help for mental problems. Does this string of baseless insults mean neither of us are smart?
As for your suggestion that education is worthless if it's not a degree granted by an 'ivy league university', a little research on your part will show that there are a multitude of reputable universities around the world other than the small handful that make up the 'ivy league universities' in the US northeast. Also I would have thought it pretty obvious that we don't even live in the US. For the record, we live in New Zealand. You have fallen for the fallacy known as the 'argument from authority', blindly assuming that those in authority, in this case those with degrees from your ivy league universities, are always right and everyone without these degrees are automatically wrong. A claim needs to stand up on the facts alone, not on who makes it.
You make no mention of what it was that has upset you, and so even if you do have a valid complaint, we have no idea what it is. If you wish us to reconsider some claim that we have made, you'll have to provide some good evidence that we've got something wrong. We'll listen to well reasoned arguments, but simply calling us names will not suffice.
I'm guessing that you haven't seen last weeks episode then? ['Sensing Murder - Insight'] Nigel Latta, renowned sceptic and clinical psychologist sat thru the whole thing, the taping, the communicating and the part where the psychic goes to the crime scene (or in this case, the death scene) and was impressed and couldnt fault the team or the medium. Also, how do you explain the names given and the apparent coincidences that the info given by the psychics was info the police kept secret from the public? It justs all seems a bit too correct to assume that its all shit. But i guess we are all entitled to our own opinion, but in this case i believe your opinion is wrong! Lol. Phew glad i got that off my chest!
Katy, me thinks you spoke too soon. We will soon finish and place online our article debunking the Nigel Latta episode. Perhaps you could read that and reconsider your opinion of your "renowned sceptic". At the end of the day however, opinion means little and it's evidence that counts. And at present the evidence indicates that the silly 'Sensing Murder' psychics are pathetic failures, and praise from your "renowned sceptic" has done nothing to change that.
Hi there, I just stumbled across your website, it's very good, well done. I have a question that you may know the answer to. I have a vague feeling that some NZ Act makes it illegal to profess to be a psychic. And that's the reason why the more savvy of them have a disclaimer "For entertainment only". Can you confirm that? And cite me a reference?
Hi Barry, I believe that you could be right, that psychics charging for their services may have to state 'For Entertainment Purposes Only'. They certainly wouldn't be putting it in if they didn't have to, as it's basically saying 'We're only having fun here, don't take us seriously', which of course is not the message they really what to portray. I'm not sure what the exact law is though, probably something to do with the 'Fair Trading Act' and falsely claiming something works when there is no evidence for such a claim. I'll do a little digging and if I find out anything specific I'll let you know.
Barry, further to your question about psychics and the law, we haven't found anything specific to NZ but I did come across some overseas references which are no doubt similar.
The fraudulent mediums act (1951) in the UK
I've sent an email to Vicki Hyde, chair of the NZ Skeptics, to see if she can shed any light.
John, I believe it's buried in some quite obscure place in the Misc Offences Act or maybe even the Crimes Act. Of course, it's likely that they are close to breaching the FTA or CGA as well.
Barry, I received the following reply from Vicki at the NZ SKeptics:
Hi John,
Maybe Vicki is right. There are definite laws in places like the US, and most psychics copy their techniques from US psychics etc, so perhaps they've blindly copied their disclaimers as well, believing that they probably apply here in NZ as well. If that's the case it's best to let them continue with this fallacy.
Hi, I have written to you before as I have an interest in this stuff. I will declare that I am a skeptic and have no idea if there is life after death. I have thus far not found any evidence that there is life after death in some form. I have just finished watching the 2nd episode of the second season of the series. I feel your arguments debunking the program don't stack up. These psychics are getting every detail correct and conveying (independently) similar new information, I can only come to 2 possible conclusions;
We disagree, David. We've clearly shown that they are not getting " every detail correct and conveying (independently) similar new information". They make many mistakes, are fed information from the film crew and provide no new information that can be verified. Saying that the killer may have had a beard or driven a blue car is not new information, it's just worthless guessing.
Hi guys, just a quick note to let you know how much I enjoyed reading your site today! Such clarity! Such wit! Are you planning to do a story on the most recent Sensing Murder, featuring Nigel Latta? For some unaccountable reason, he seems taken by these people (who often are very pleasant and nice in real life). Keep up the good work!
Hi Nick, thanks for your positive comments. It always good to get feedback.
Good Site. Have a look at this site — www.prophet.co.nz, in particular the avatar course. These guys are out there! This kind of bullshit is unfortunately spreading like a cancer in this country, let's not make it too easy for them. Keep up the good work.
Bruce, I had a quick look at the site you mentioned, and I'll read more when I get time, but you're right, it's utter crap. They claim that "Avatar®... works on the principle that you create your own reality through the beliefs that you hold" and "your entire experience is a belief creation, and... you can... create the reality you'd prefer to be living". Does this mean that there are people on the street who for them the Iraq war isn't happening and others that have a reality where all the cute women are naked?
We're always amazed that intelligent people can fall for these scams. A friend of Rachel's, one of our team, actually believed that she also could create her own reality, and when she told Rachel this, her husband had just recently died of cancer at age 57. She wasn't that insensitive to ask her why she created a reality where her beloved husband suffered and died, but this is a perfect example of how people just don't think all that deeply about their silly beliefs.
Our website is just a very small contribution to critical inquiry, but as you say, we do need to start standing up to the spread of bullshit.
John, thanks for your reply, through my own personal experience allied with a casual glance at the TV1 Good Morning show I think it is time that the apologists for bullshit were called to face the sticky questions. I would love to initiate a programme of local interest along the lines of Penn & Teller. Working on it.
Just a quick comment on last nights episode. Debbie last night made a slip of the tongue that was not edited out. The ghost had not yet told her where it's body was found and Debbie let slip that the body was found in a pool, meaning water. She quickly stopped what she was saying and said "to where the body was located". My conclusion is that Debbie knew at that point that the body was found in a pool of water, how did she know this if the ghost had not told her. She was intermit with the case. Both psychics got absolutely everything correct about the case. Both also made predictions and named a suspect. If they both independently named the same person and that person confesses I will be scratching my head. But I doubt that will happen as that program is a complete fake and needs to be exposed.
Sorry didnt really enjoy your site!
Hello, I was on the net and stumbled on to your site. I watched Sensing Murder tonight and thoroughly enjoyed it.
As an adult of probably average intelligence, I get that this is an entertainment programme. Its a telly show. It sits alongside the likes of LOST or Desperate Housewives. Its on TVNZ. We know they are morons.
I take the psychics observations with a grain of salt and believe that if there was anything to this the Police would have arrested someone - but this never happens. I watch the show and think nothing more about it until next Tuesday, 8.30pm rolls around and I am sitting in front of the telly again.
Watching Sensing Murder is like reading a trashy novel, listening to the Spice Girls or going to a bad horror flick. It doesn't require any depth of thought or analysis. It sort of empties the brain. This is very relaxing and cheaper than beer or drugs.
I don't quite understand why you take a silly TV2 show so seriously. No one wants to be reminded that this is a load of arse. We just want to sit back and watch the circus.
You are a bunch of killjoy wowsers. Leave my silly beliefs alone. I like them.
Hi Danielle, you say 'I watched Sensing Murder tonight and thoroughly enjoyed it'. Good for you. I watch the cartoon 'Family Guy' and thoroughly enjoy it. The difference is I don't believe it's real. Most people that watch Sensing Murder, millions and millions of them, believe it is real. It is these people that our site is aimed towards.
To call it an 'entertainment program' alongside Lost or Desperate Housewives is false. Fictional shows like Medium and Ghost Whisperer are entertainment programs in this genre. 'Sensing Murder' isn't. It features real murder cases, real 'psychics', real policemen and real private investigators trying to find real murderers in real time. By your classification you would have to call 'Crimewatch' an 'entertainment program' as well. What about TV1 News? Is that just entertainment too? Shouldn't we take that seriously either? What about the likes of 'Piha Rescue' and 'Border Security'? Are they just actors reading a script like 'Shortland Street'? The fact is that 'Sensing Murder' sees itself as a psychic version of 'Crimewatch', and it desperately wants to solve these crimes. Remember it won an award for the best Reality TV show, not best comedy or drama. You are fortunate enough to realise it is only crap entertainment but an enormous number of people don't. Those that claim people only go to psychics for 'entertainment purposes' are deluding themselves. For example psychic Kelvin Cruickshank charges a minimum of $300 for a reading. Nobody throws away this sort of money knowing that the psychic is simply making things up to entertain them. Would you go to a fake doctor at $300 a pot just to be entertained with a fake diagnosis? Of course not, so those that say they are just going to psychics for a laugh are lying. They believe.
If you really accept that 'Sensing Murder' is 'a load of arse', then our site hasn't told you anything you didn't already know. It's not as though we're spoiling a movie by revealing the ending. I can't see how our article has ruined it for you since you already acknowledge the show is crap. Entertaining crap but crap nevertheless. Not once do we say people should boycott this program or stop watching entertainment programs.
Also I don't understand how you can believe we take this show seriously. It's just the opposite. We're trying to convince people NOT to take it seriously. You may understand that it's pure B-grade fantasy like Lost or Desperate Housewives but the majority of people that watch it don't. And unfortunately this psychic crap doesn't stop when 'Sensing Murder' finishes, it only begins. Both Deb Webber and Kelvin Cruickshank are doing shows around NZ at present and believers are forking out a fortune to attend. 'Sensing Murder' is just TV advertising for their careers. We couldn't give a stuff who watches 'Sensing Murder'. It's those that give psychics money because of the show that we want to reach. What would you do if a family member asked if you would lend them or even give them $300 plus to have a reading? Would you, like we have tried to do on our website, point out that it's all crap, or would you, like your comment suggests we do, turn a blind eye and say, 'Sure here's $300. Go and be entertained. I'm not a killjoy wowser like some'. Imagine if this family member was spending a fortune on psychics every month, money they could ill afford, would you try and change this frivolous spending or would you say 'I'm going to 'leave their silly beliefs alone'. I suspect, or at least hope, that you would speak out. But why should you be allowed to challenge someone's silly beliefs and not us?
PS. It's also disappointing that you willingly choose to watch programs picked by 'morons', that equate to trash novels and bad movies, those that don't require any depth of thought and that empty the brain. Life's short. Maybe you should look at lifting your game just a little bit.
Hi, I am doing an inquiry for school. The subject I have have chosen is 'Psychics', and my main question is 'Are they real?'
While doing some research I have found your website. I was wondering if you would help me by answering a few questions so I can include your input in my study. I have attached the four questions I would like you to consider and answer. I hope you can do this for me. Many thanks.
Sure Millie, we're happy to. [For those interested in the questions and our answers, we have printed them below.]
'Psychics - Are they real?'
1) Do you have any proof the show Sensing Murder is a set-up or is it just really likely?
There is definitely proof that parts of the show are set-up. There is evidence of the Sensing Murder production team telling the psychics that they are wrong and giving them the correct answer. For example in the episode 'A Bump in the Night' the psychic Kelvin claimed that Alicia had a dog. This was wrong and a member of the production team is heard telling him that she actually had a cat. Sensing Murder claims that the psychics provide all the information but this proves that Sensing Murder actually gives the psychics information, which they swear they never do. If you did this in an exam you would be accused of cheating. In the same episode psychic Deb is looking at and talking about the wrong window and a member of the production team comes over and turns her around to face the correct window and gives her a floor layout of the house. They told Kelvin what to say and now they're telling Deb where to look and what the house looks like inside, even though Deb is supposed to be telling them. In the 'Insight' episode the Sensing Murder production team faked video shots of the hotel psychic Deb pretended to find, of a photo being placed in front of her and of her walking into a house where a death occurred. The director of Sensing Murder admitted to me that they faked these shots and that they also played other shots of Deb in the wrong order, which misled the viewer.
While directors of shows like Shortland Street tell their actors what to say and where to stand and then edit the video footage to get the best effect, Shortland Street is recognised as fiction. The fact that Sensing Murder must also tell their psychics what to say and where to stand and then edit the video footage to get the best effect proves that the psychics are incapable of providing the information the production team needs. They have to fake it. For the Insight episode of Sensing Murder the psychic was filmed giving her reading for 6 hours, yet less than 12 minutes of this was shown on TV. This would indicate that nearly all of what she said had no relation to the case, and even in the 12 minutes we did see there was nothing that the police could use.
The fact that different versions of Sensing Murder screens in 11 countries and yet not one single murder has been solved proves that the psychics are not providing valuable new clues as they claim.
There is no conclusive proof that Sensing Murder is a hoax or deliberate set-up by the production team and psychics but the fact that they have been caught faking parts of the show makes it highly unlikely that psychic ability was involved. If the psychics are real why do they have to fake parts of the show? The production team and psychics may even be convinced that they are being honest in the way they edit the show, but remember that you can be truthful and still be wrong. Children aren't necessarily lying when they say they've seen the real Santa Claus. They just don't realise that adults are tricking them.
Imagine watching a really good magic show on TV. You can detect no evidence of cheating on the part of the magician. It all seems real. Yet when the magician is out on the street he can never perform the same magic. What's most likely — that it's all a trick aided by TV editing or that it's real magic? Why does his magic power disappear in real life? Now ask the same question of the psychics. It all seems real on TV yet they can never solve murders in the real world. What's most likely, that it's all a trick aided by TV editing or that it's real psychic power?
2) Have you ever met a person who says they are psychic? If yes, did they give you any good reason to believe them?
Yes, I've met several people who believed they had various levels of psychic ability and no, none could give me a good reason to believe them. For a start none could demonstrate their psychic ability. They either refused or if they did attempt to demonstrate their powers they failed miserably. Many believed they had limited psychic ability because sometimes they would think of something happening and then it did. This is merely coincidence and happens to everyone at various times. We sometimes get lucky. We also forget the many, many times we think of something happening and it doesn't.
Every reason they gave that they thought pointed to psychic powers actually had simple rational answers that didn't involve spooky things happening. Many were completely unaware that science had good proven answers as to why some things appeared to happen in strange ways. In a similar way people hundreds of years ago thought lightning was caused by angry gods and even then mediums talked to dead people. Now we know there are natural explanations for lightning and what appear to be strange feelings and spooky hunches. Most people have learnt about the cause of lightning but many still need to learn about psychics.
In the USA there is a magician who will give you $1,000,000 if you can demonstrate any sort of paranormal power. Even in NZ, in Wanaka, there is a psychic challenge where you can earn $100,000 by demonstrating psychic ability. No one has passed the test and nearly all the psychics have refused to even take it. They don't have to do anything different to what they do on TV or in stage shows, just get information from spirits. The only difference is that they are not allowed to cheat, and just like in school exams, people take steps to ensure they can't cheat. Nearly all the psychics, even the really famous ones, the ones people say are the best, refuse to take the test. What are they afraid of? The fact that the famous psychics like those on Sensing Murder and the ones I've met all refuse to take these tests is a good reason not to believe them when they say they are psychic.
3) Could you find scientific proof against it?
Is there scientific proof that psychic ability doesn't exist? This is a difficult question because there are many different descriptions of what psychic ability actually is. Psychics are always very vague about what they can and cannot do. Some will say they can see dead people, others that they merely hear voices, others that they see dreamlike visions in their mind, others that they can read minds or predict the future. Others just have a feeling or hunch that they believe is being caused by the spirit of dead people. You can't test for something until psychics and mediums describe exactly what they can and cannot do.
To avoid this problem we have a concept called the Burden of Proof. It is the job of the person who makes a special claim to provide the proof. Since psychics claim they can get information from the spirits of dead people it is their responsibility to provide scientific proof that this is true. If someone claims something you should always ask 'What is your evidence for that?' If your friend says they can fly like Superman or do real magic like Harry Potter, it is their job to provide evidence that their claim is true. They can't just sit on the sofa and say 'You prove I can't fly or do magic'. You can provide what you believe are good reasons why they can't fly but you can't prove conclusively that your friend can't fly. They can merely answer that you have shown why most people can't fly but they are special and can fly. The only way the problem can be finally solved is if they get off the sofa and prove they can fly. It's the same with psychics, the only way is for them to stop hiding on TV shows and prove they can talk to spirits.
Unfortunately no matter what test scientists do which suggests psychic ability doesn't exist, psychics simply say that rule doesn't apply to them. Like your friend sitting on the sofa and refusing to fly, psychics generally refuse to let scientists test them. That's why you only see them on TV shows and stage shows for entertainment. The few psychics that have allowed themselves to be tested have failed miserably. They then say that this is because people that don't believe in them neutralise their powers. Their excuses never end. We can't prove conclusively that Sensing Murder is fake because they refuse to let scientists or skeptics observe their filming. What are they hiding?
Think of scientists and inventors and drug companies. When they make a new discovery they immediately do everything in their power to prove to the world that their discovery, invention or drug really does work. They don't sit back and say 'You prove it doesn't work'. The world correctly ignores people that say this, and yet this is exactly what psychics say, 'You prove we're not talking to spirits'. You should be very suspicious of people that refuse to prove their claims are true.
That said, there is good scientific evidence that souls do not exist and that people do not survive their death. In the past people believed that the brain and the mind were separate things. They believed that your mind — your thoughts, feelings and memories — would happily carry on even if your brain died. Science now knows that if your brain is damaged the mind is damaged as well, showing that the mind is caused by the brain. When your brain dies your mind ceases to exist, it doesn't wonder off to sit on a cloud somewhere. If you wonder what it might be like after you die, one way to think of it is that it's exactly the same as it was before you were born. Do you remember waiting around for millions and billions of years waiting to be born? No, that's because you didn't exist before you were born and you won't exist after you die. Since there is no spirit there is nothing for the psychics to talk to.
At the end the day you can never prove to everyone's satisfaction that psychics aren't real. Even most psychics admit that many psychics are fakes but they insist that they and one or two others are real. Even if you tested one million psychics and proved they were all fakes, you would still get people insisting there were still real psychics out there, we just haven't tested the real ones. One real psychic could prove science wrong, but like fairies and wizards, the real ones stay hidden.
4) Why do you think other people might believe in it?
It's like a small child believing in Santa Claus. It seems to make sense when you're young, but as they learn more about the world they realise that it just couldn't be true. As they grow up children discover that there are no flying reindeer in the world so come to the conclusion that their parents have been tricking them. Adults believing in psychics are like children continuing to believe in Santa even when they grow up. Unfortunately many people believe psychic abilities might be possible because they don't understand much about science, about the brain and the mind and about coincidences. As people learn about these things they realise that belief in psychics is just as silly as the belief in Santa was. But many people, while they may know a lot about their work or cars or rugby, remain childlike in their knowledge of how psychics might work.
TV can appear to make Superman fly and Harry Potter invisible. In the same way it can appear to make psychics talk with dead people. If we were allowed backstage we would see the tricks they use to make Superman fly and Harry Potter invisible, we would also see the tricks they use on Sensing Murder. It is very easy to fool gullible people if you tell them what they are seeing is real, which they do on Sensing Murder. People are convinced that people on TV wouldn't lie to them, yet they do it all the time. Just last week the TV sports quiz show 'Game of Two Halves' admitted that they cheated every week. We are lead to believe that it is a true quiz show between two teams, but they revealed that both teams are told many of the questions before the show. They said they didn't what the sports people to appear stupid by not knowing the answers. This is cheating and deliberate lying to the viewer.
It's easy to make people believe in TV psychics, but why might they believe that they are psychic themselves or their friends are? Mainly because they don't understand about coincidences, about lucky guesses, about educated guesses and body language.
A good example I read about coincidences was someone thinking of a person they hadn't heard from for years and then within five minutes they receive a phone call informing them that this person has died. When this happens to people they believe they must have received some form of psychic communication otherwise how would they have known? It's impossible to just be a coincidence they think. But it's not. Some scientists worked out that this spooky experience happens on average to 65 people in the USA every day. In the same way that you can work out the odds of a coin toss you can work out that by a mere fluke this will happen to 65 people in the USA every day or 23,728 every year. And no doubt many will be convinced that they now have psychic powers, when it was just a coincidence. Even if psychics were real you would still have this many extra people having spooky experiences just as a fluke. Too many people think that just because something is unusual then it must be paranormal. Not so. Lucky guesses are another reason people think something weird has happened when it hasn't. The other night I said to a friend of a friend, someone who believes in psychics, that "Psychics never say things like 'I know that your middle name is Anne'. They are always vague, saying your first name might begin with A or maybe M". She just stared at me and replied "How did you know my middle name is Anne?" The point is I didn't, it was just a lucky guess. Educated guesses and reading body language are more ways that people can give answers that turn out to be correct. Based on what we know about a sports team or someone's skill at maths we can make predictions on how well they'll perform in a match or exam. Based on how old people are, what they're wearing and how they talk we can make guesses on what sort of life they might lead. Unfortunately some people don't realise they're just working these things out in their head, they think that dead people must be giving them information.
Your main question is 'Are they real?' One thing you can do is look around you and ask what would the world be like if psychics were real?
Well for a start, hospitals wouldn't be fill of very expensive scanners for diagnosing illness. Psychics would simply diagnose all illness and disease as they are shown doing on TV and stage. They would phone you in plenty of time telling you that you need to go to hospital for treatment. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies such as the police, SIS, FBI, CIA etc would have replaced all detectives and investigators with psychics. Every crime would be solved. You couldn't hide anything from the psychics and their all-seeing spirits.
Recent history would have been very different. For example two very famous people, Princess Diana and Mother Teresa, both died in the same week yet not one psychic predicted this. Princess Diana had even visited her personal psychic a week before she died and yet nothing was foreseen. Two space shuttles exploded killing all the astronauts without any warning from psychics. No psychic predicted the Sept 11th attack on the World Trade Center or the terrorist attacks in London, Madrid or Bali. No psychic predicted the devastating Asian tsunami on Boxing Day, 2004. No psychic told President George W Bush that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or that the war would not go well.
All these things would have been completely different if psychics were real. None of the terrorist attacks would have happened, there would be no war in Iraq or Afghanistan and thousands of lives and billions of dollars would have been saved. Princess Diana wouldn't have got into that car with a drunk driver and the astronauts would still be alive. Mother Teresa would still be dead but psychics would have saved hundreds of thousands of other lives. As it turned out, they saved none. I don't know about NZ, but in America it is a criminal offence to know that a crime is going to be committed and do nothing about it.
As far as your personal life goes, if psychics and spirits were real they would be spying on you every minute of the day. You would have no secrets. Your parents wouldn't need to ask you where you were going or whom you were meeting, they would merely ask a psychic.
We must also remember that psychics and mediums have been around for thousands of years. They're even mentioned in the Bible, where they were getting things wrong even then. Yet even though they have been practising their art for thousands of years they are just as ineffective as ever. Everything else we have to today that we know works has show massive improvement over the years. Think of medicine, science, technology (planes, cars, computers and cell phones), yet psychic predictions are no more reliable today than they were 2000 years ago. In other words, they are just as false now as they were then.
It's pretty obvious that psychics play no part in the world we live, so like witches and dragons and fairies, we have to assume they aren't real.
Hi. Thank you very much for the information you gave me. It has helped my inquiry lots.
Hi again, I have to congratulate you on your efforts at debunking sensing murder. I have stopped watching the series as it is the same thing over and over. But the fact that these people parade around "cheating" and preying on vulnerable people really annoys me. And either I believe in ghosts or the production team are complicit in some aspects of the cheating. This is fraudulent. And I see that fake Colin Fry is coming here.
The bottom line is, why can't a spirit provide a single piece of information that can be corroborated that could not have come from any other source. And as you point out on some occasions the spirit is very direct and precise with information, on other occasions it's "I get an M name" All of the information is either un testable or has already been reported in newspapers etc.
This may sound a bit dramatic but i really believe the problem humanity faces is the fact that most of the worlds population are lead by religions/beliefs that have about as much truth to them as Deb Webber's ravings. I am not dismissing that there may be phenomena unknown to science but I am yet to see a psychic demonstrate an irrefutable piece of information that would make me believe in an after life.
Sensing murder is just silly, it's pure entertainment, Deb is a cheat and only an intuitive cold reader and the production team have edited the show to make her performance look good.
then again, why not believe in an after life, if it make this life more palatable. i wish i really believed.
John deeply impressed with your site, and thank goodness someone is out their using their brain rather than swallowing the codswallap that passes for thinking these days. I was very impressed with your essay on Sensing Murder, surely one of the more horrendous examples of entertainment currently on air.
I did not see the Nigel Latta episode, but had watched an earlier one where during Deb's reading a photo fell off the motel room wall and was shown to the camera by the 'producer' (The murder victim in this case had been an amature photographer)
All the best to you all for your future work which I shall look forward to catching up with.
You people are clearly totally ingnorant to life. If you've got nothing better to do than to rubbish good people that are trying to make a differance then how sad are you. When was the last time you yourself tried to make a positve difference in the community. Very Very SAD you must be.
Good luck with your blind one eyed view.
Hi Kelvin. Thanks for your comment but we are not ignorant. We are happy to look at any error or mistake that you think we may have made, regarding you or the show, but you don't mention any. You just insult us. You can't make us change our minds by calling us childish names. We challenge you to to prove us wrong. You could do it if you wanted to. Why don't you want to?
And you are wrong, as we are continually trying to make a positive difference, and not just in the community, but the whole world. That's the purpose of our website, exposing people who are trying to rip off others. Helping those that want to know how people are fooling them. And we help people for FREE. Do you help people for free or do you demand money?
Rather than being sad, we are very happy that we can help people, and we've received many comments thanking us for exposing those that push lies and delusions.
Merry Xmas John, have a fab summer and an awesome 08
Have just found your site... and its great to find there are still some sane people left in the world.
A topic I'm interested in is "Energy and Global Warming" ...the official lines are a hypocritical load of crap and need exposure. Keep up the good work.
Hi John, I have just read your critique of an episode of Sensing Murder. I have to confess, I happened upon your site because I was reading about the show (SM) because, in all honesty, I would love for it to be true.
You make some valid points and I was wondering, have you ever considered approaching the producers to ask if you could sit in on the taping of an episode (if they even make it any more)?
You seem to make no bones about the fact that you think it's all bullshit, and you may very well be right, but would you be prepared to do that (sit in and observe) and objectively report what you see?
I would find that very interesting reading indeed. As I say, I would love for all of that to be true, the suggestion that life goes on after death and so forth, but in reality, to have an objective and open-minded (would you describe yourself as open-minded though?) third party observe and state what they saw, without all of the edited, producer-filtered propaganda that the final product is no doubt subject to - would be great.
Your site certainly makes for interesting reading.
Hi Amanda, thanks for you comments regarding Sensing Murder. I'm not sure which critique of ours you read, there are three, but one does feature an allegedly "independent" observer sitting in on the filming of an episode — 'Sensing Murder - Insight' — with Nigel Latta. It didn't work in our view, and since they threatened us with legal action if we didn't remove a couple of screen shots showing them cheating, I doubt that they would welcome us onto their set. I believe they are hoping to make another NZ series, they certainly have plenty of fans. Strangely in Oz, your Sensing Murder series bombed. You're either not as gullible as Kiwis or you have even better things to watch on TV.
Unfortunately there is a lot more required than just being on set and observing the filming. Failing to observe any cheating proves nothing. I've observed magicians and couldn't for the life of me see where they were cheating, but I think you're agree that they were. To catch a magician, and a TV psychic, one would have to have control of the filming, being permitted to set up cameras from all angles, searching the magician/psychic for hidden props and having complete control of the film editing so that no inconvenient pieces were deleted. But a lot more would be required as well. If it was a complete scam between film crew and psychic, they could give the psychic ALL the information she needed before the observer turned up for the filming. The observer would detect NO cheating because all the cheating happened before he arrived. The observer would have to pick someone on his team to select what case the psychic would be doing a reading on. The observer would not be told what this case was, so that they couldn't unintentionally give away information. This is the only way that he would know that no one could past information to the psychic. And there would have to be lots of other safeguards put in place, like having to do several tests, because just by coincidence the psychic may be familiar with the case your colleague chooses.
The thing is, these tests under controlled conditions have already be performed several times on psychics and mediums and they have failed miserably every time. Psychics only appear to work when no one is allowed to watch too closely. And even then they don't really work. Remember that in all the countries where the Sensing Murder series has been produced, not one case has been solved.
Like you "I would love for it to be true". Well parts of it anyway. I'd love for them to be able to finger criminals and find missing people. Life would be much safer. But I would hate the invasion of privacy bit. I'd hate thinking that the psychic/medium across town or across the country could be watching me have sex or on the toilet. I mean we wouldn't stand for our neighbour peeking through our bedroom windows, why should we be happy for a psychic to do it remotely?
You ask "Would you describe yourself as open-minded though?" Most definitely. I've changed my mind on many things over the years when presented with good evidence and reasons to do so. A lot of science is indirectly investigating these areas but to date the evidence is pointing away from psychics being real. It is now up to psychics to prove their case, rather than continually saying "Well, you prove we can't do it." When the newspaper headlines change from "Police catch killer" to "Psychics solve yet another case", then I'll start taking them seriously.
Hi John, thanks for your response. Have you guys considered approaching any of the psychics who feature on the show to conduct your own controlled reading? You said that there has been this type of research already done, I'd really like to read something about this previous research, if you could point me in the right direction of some credible sources, that would be great.
Are you aware of any neuroimaging studies or anything along those lines that have been done while a psychic has been doing a reading, anything that might suggest a physiological explanation that may go some way toward enlightening us as to what might be happening (if anything) during a reading?
I agree that a double-blind experiment would absolutely go a long way toward eliminating many of the potential loopholes that could be used to cheat in these types of situations.
Overall, I think the jury is still out on these things (although, to be honest, I think it is, as you say, leaning away from the psychics at this point). I must admit that, as someone who really does want to believe this stuff, I probably don't watch Sensing Murder as objectively as someone who doesn't have quite so much invested might. It would be great viewing if you guys could convince one or more of the psychics to take part in a double-blind experiment - if you have not tried to do this, would you consider doing it? I'm sure there would be a production company out there willing to work with you on that and you'd certainly have an audience.
This is an absolutely fascinating area and I look forward to continued investigation into whether there really is something to it all. Thanks again.
Hi Amanda. Have we considered approaching any of the psychics? No. We've had a couple of emails from two of the psychics and we're not exactly their favourite people. Also we can't afford to do the type of testing that would satisfy the critics, mind you I don't think anything would convince some. And anyway, psychics just DON'T want to be tested. The last thing they want is the world to know that they failed a real test. And if they were going to risk it they would take one of the tests that have enormous rewards if they succeed. For example here are just a few that they could take, and yes, James Randi is offering ONE MILLION DOLLARS for one demonstration of psychic powers:
James Randi $1,000,000 paranormal challenge
No psychics are lining up to take these controlled tests, several of the famous ones in the States have point blankly reused to take them, and the handful of unknowns that have tried have all failed. It seems the famous psychics that you and I have heard of know perfectly well that they couldn't pass these tests. They won't even risk it for a million dollars but say they can do it every night on TV or stage.
Here are some links to articles that examine the claims of psychics. (At the bottom of our intro Sensing Murder page there are also other links to articles related to Psychics and the Police):
John Edward: Hustling the Bereaved
We're not aware of any neuroimaging studies of psychics. They may not have even been attempted since scientists would normally say, only once we are sure there is something strange going on in the brain, that can't be explained by more prosaic means, will we go to the expense of neuroimaging etc. Once we eliminate all other possibilities, then we'll look at the brain.
As for making a TV show that would test the psychics, as fascinating as it would be to you and I, unfortunately most people don't want to see this sort thing. They would rather have their mysteries remain mysteries. We've had people email us criticising us for exposing psychics and ruining their enjoyment of Sensing Murder, and others who say they even refuse to read our site in the fear that it would shake their belief in psychics. A few years ago Carl Sagan tried to get the US TV networks to make a show testing all this weird stuff and they said it just wouldn't rate. I don't know if you watch shows like "MythBusters" or "Penn and Teller: Bullshit!" that debunk a lot of this silly stuff, but no one I know outside our group watches them. Most people just aren't interested in reality, whereas we find the real universe far more fascinating than all the make-believe.
You're right, this is an absolutely fascinating area, and all I can suggest is to read not just about psychics, but about physics, biology, probability, philosophy, psychology and critical thinking etc. All subjects which lend themselves to what might be happening in a psychic reading and why science says it's not likely to be true psychic powers.
Hi John, thanks for the links, I've had a bit of a look at a couple of them - not a lot of time to do anything more than that.
You suggest I do some reading on areas such as, amongst other things, Psychology - I'm actually a Psych student so believe me, I'm doing plenty of that!
No, I don't watch Penn and Teller, only because in my opinion it is an edited program with a definite agenda, and so, it is as likely as any other, Sensing Murder included, to present its argument in the most favourable light. Those people featured on Penn and Teller might well argue that they were edited or taken out of context too, so I take any of those sorts of shows with a grain of salt.
I'd be interested in your thoughts about Scott Russell Hill, the Australian Psychic Numerologist sometimes included in a cameo type appearance on the NZ version of SM. He used to have a radio show in Adelaide in the 90s and predicted such events as September 11th and the death of Princess Diana (how, where etc). There are tapes of him making these predictions on air before they happened, rather than coming on after the fact and saying, "oh yeah, I knew that would happen." I think that is quite interesting given that his predictions were rather specific. For example, the suggestion that the city affected in the case of September 11th would be New York and that planes would be involved - its not as though he said, "I think there may be some kind of issue with a major American city..." that could mean anything. Anyway, what are your thoughts?
Also, do you believe that life after death may exist, or are you solidly of the opinion that it does not? You have been very clear on your opinion of self-proclaimed psychics who say they are able to speak to the dead, but do you believe that there may be something more for us after we die? Just because you are sceptical about psychics does not necessarily answer the question about your beliefs on life after death - simply on their ability to communicate with the dead.
Hi Amanda, some answers to your questions. It's interesting that you say you don't watch the likes of 'Penn and Teller', feeling that you can't really trust their conclusions. Especially since you suggested we make our own show on psychics. The outcome would be the same. Believers in psychics wouldn't trust our conclusions and wouldn't watch. This is a problem that all shows that are skeptical or critical of some specific claim have, whether it be psychics, the moon landing 'hoax' or Noah's Ark. Those that are partial to the claim either don't watch the show, or if they do, convince themselves that the producers were biased. They say that they're not really open minded to these things. And I would agree that many programs have an agenda and suppress information damaging to their claims. I've seen shows that support belief in alien autopsies, haunted houses, remote viewing, Noah's Ark and other religious topics etc that are embarrassing biased and deceptive. They often have the likes of 55 minutes of comments from believers and 5 minutes of comments from a skeptic or scientist, if any at all. And they almost never let the skeptic question the person making the claim. But I honestly can't say I've seen the same bias in shows made by reputable scientists, academics, skeptics and production companies. But of course you'll ask how do I know I'm not deluding myself, that I simply don't want these things to be true because they conflict with my natural view of the world?
It's like when Christians accuse me of not believing in god because I HATE god. My emotions are blinding me. But this is false. Doctors can't cure everything and cost a fortune, so I'd love to be able to place a crystal on my forehead to cure any disease. I'd love to meet aliens and take a spin in their spaceship. As a teenager I'd have loved to be able to turn invisible and look in the girl's changing rooms. I'd love to be able to psychically find objects I misplace or foresee negative events in my future to avoid. Skeptics DON'T disbelieve these things because we don't want them to be true. We disbelieve them because not only is there no good evidence for them, there IS good evidence that says they are extremely unlikely or downright impossible. Emotion or wishes don't come into it. We simply look at where the evidence points. And when it comes to science, when these guys say something works in a certain way I believe them. Our modern world exists because when scientists say antibiotics work and planes will fly and MRIs will see inside me, they do. Yet when poorly trained or poorly educated people with a product to sell tell me magnetic underlays or prayer will cure disease, or aliens will turn up any day now or ghosts are causing the drafts in my home, they can never prove it. Scientists provide research evidence, quacks provide testimonials. Scientists have proven themselves trustworthy. Psychics, conspiracy theorists and those warning us of the Rapture haven't. The best way to judge any documentary type show is to use critical thinking. Question everything people say. Does it make sense? What aren't they telling us? Are they pushing a product or service that might bias their presentation? Does it match with what I know about science or history or medicine? Do they give their opponents a voice? Yes 'Penn and Teller' are edited and biased. They have a view and they push it. But I have yet to see an episode where they lie or cheat or prevent their opponents from putting their case. And I haven't agreed with their stance on every show, but they do give you enough info to make up your own mind and motivate you to find out more. And yes I did say 'Penn and Teller' was biased, but this doesn't mean it is deceptive. Think of when an astronomer discuses the formation of the solar system. He never mentions how god might have done it. Religious people might then claim that his talk was biased and unbalanced since it didn't give equal time to a religious explanation. They're right, it was biased and unbalanced in a sense, but only because they suggest that the two theories are EQUAL, that they deserve equal time and resources. But this is not the case. A debate would only be truly biased and unbalanced if there were two equally competing 'answers' to a question and only one was considered, the other suppressed. 'Penn and Teller' are 'biased' in the sense that they believe all this paranormal stuff is crap, in that they already have an opinion and haven't gone into it undecided, but not in the sense that they unfairly manipulate their opponents.
You asked for my thoughts on psychic Scott Russell Hill. It needs to be remembered that the week Princess Diana died, so did Mother Teresa, and skeptics had a field day pointing out that NOT ONE psychic worldwide predicted even one of their deaths. Yet the astral plane should have been screaming so much about this that even amateur psychics should have picked up on it. Princess Di even went to her personal psychic the previous week and… nothing! And did we hear Russell Hill claiming that he had predicted Di's death? No. Maybe you heard about it in Oz but the rest of the world didn't. I only heard about his claim late last year on Sensing Murder. I find it unbelievable that someone could predict not just Princess Di's death, but 9/11, the Bali bombings and John F Kennedy Jnr's death as well and that it was never widely publicised. Not on the TV news or in the papers, but only in passing on Sensing Murder 10 years later. What has he predicted since? In another 10 years will he claim that he predicted the 2004 Asian tsunami? And if his prediction was so precise and so clear, why did he do nothing about it? Why not warn Princess Di or President Bush? He obviously wasn't confident about it or even clear what it meant. If he was and did nothing, then this is despicable. He could have saved thousands of lives, plus the lives lost in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the billions of dollars that have been spent since, plus prevented the increased threat of terrorism for everyone. If he really knew, why did he do nothing? And why has he done nothing since?
But let's look at what he actually said on his radio show, well the snippets that he's released anyway:
"John F Kennedy Jnr, I have always felt disaster round him in a plane crash, it's like ahhhh… a light plane…"
Everyone knows that John F Kennedy Jnr was a pilot that was always flying his own light plane, and many people believe that the Kennedy family is the unluckiest family on the planet and so believe another tragedy is just a matter of time. Not if but when. Everyone said they weren't surprised when another Kennedy was struck down. Every psychic was predicting tragedy for the Kennedys. And rich people more often than not fly in their own small, light planes not big public jets. Thus if they're going to be in plane crash, the odds are overwhelming that it will be in a "light plane".
"There's either going to be an earthquake in Bali or a bomb's going to go off because all I see in Bali is buildings on fire and a lot of devastation."
This prediction merely says that at SOME UNSPECIFIED TIME in the future an earthquake OR a bomb might strike Bali. If you wait long enough it CAN'T FAIL but come true, especially the earthquake guess.
"Key times of danger for the World Trade Center and New York in particular is September, October and November of the year 2001. It's like a missile strike or something striking the building from the air."
In a Woman's Day article he acknowledges that terrorists have already tried to blow up the World Trade Center, and this is him simply wondering like everyone else, whether it might happen again. Blowing it up from beneath didn't work, so maybe a missile this time? You don't have to be a psychic to make this guess. People say he got the date right, but actually he only got one in three dates right. Nothing happened in NY in October or November. And these dates cover a full quarter of the year. That's a big window. Plus it was five years before the event would occur, long enough for everyone to have forgotten about it if nothing happened. The world of psychics if overflowing with failed predictions, which they happily ignore, and they concentrate on their one lucky guess. And why didn't he mention Washington and Pennsylvania, the sites of the other 9/11 attacks? Or warn Bush not to go into Iraq?
"With Princess Diana I just feel she is going to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that she could be involved in an accident, I feel in a car… [cut]."
Note he does NOT say that she is going to be KILLED in a car accident, only that she COULD be INVOLVED in one. As could any of us. You may be aware that car accidents are not all that rare. The fact that the rest of his sentence is edited out may have even revealed him saying that it wasn't going to be fatal. And again he doesn't say when or where. If she was still alive today then this open-ended prediction would still be out there, waiting to be quoted if Di was involved in a minor fender bender.
The Woman's Day magazine, who employed Russell Hill, titled their article: "The world's most accurate psychic," and quoted the following as his 9/11 prediction:
"New York will be affected again in an attack… either through or from the air… in September, October and November 2001… The World Trade Center has been attacked once. It can be attacked again."
And yet the recording that Russell Hill quoted earlier is different:
"Key times of danger for the World Trade Center and New York in particular is September, October and November of the year 2001. It's like a missile strike or something striking the building from the air."
Which was his ACTUAL prediction? What were the ACTUAL words? Obviously one has been altered to better reflect what they want it to say. Have they both been altered perhaps? The edited recording was provided by Russell Hill, not an independent source. And what else did Russell Hill say that we don't get to hear. He made these predictions on a radio show called Psychic Saturday Night on the 28 Sep 1996. The readings we heard were only 35 seconds out of probably one, two or three hours of predictions. Out of possibly hours of predictions he could only find 35 seconds worth that he thought had come true!! That's a pathetic success rate. If you or I were given a couple of hours to make continuous educated guesses about what might happen somewhere in the world over the next 10 years, I am extremely confident that a handful, at the very least, would come true. Accidents will befall people, natural disasters will happen, leaders will be assassinated, marriages will spit up. And if we only trumpet the ones that came true, we would appear psychic. If you actually got to verify EVERY prediction that these silly psychics made, you'd find that you and I would have a MUCH BETTER record at predicting what will happen than they did. The Woman's Day article also said: "Aussie's amazing prediction that came true - and new predictions that will shock you." I don't know what his new predictions were, but since we've heard nothing on the news about 'psychic predicts such and such', I guess they were all wrong or he's still waiting for his vague guesses to match up with something. The question is, if he can accurately predict these things, why does he scratch out an existence helping housewives from his home in Adelaide, rather than working for world governments and corporations as an obscenely well-paid and famous consultant?
You ask "Do you believe that life after death may exist?" Of course there may be life after death (there may even be leprechauns), but I don't believe there is. Nearly everyone's conception of life after death and souls etc comes from religion. But I'm an atheist which means that this conveniently scraps this idea. Once you get rid of gods, there's nowhere for souls to go, no one to create and judge souls, no one to reincarnate them as grasshoppers. Without the idea of religion the whole idea of granny sitting around on clouds and keeping an eye on what colour you paint the kitchen collapses. Of course one could argue that souls aren't supernatural in origin, they are just a mysterious part of nature, an immaterial thing that forms the mind using the physical brain — the old idea called mind-brain duality which you've no doubt heard of. But few scientists or philosophers believe this anymore. And neither do I. The mind is created by the brain. When the brain is damaged, the mind suffers. When the brain dies, so does the mind. Someone asked me the other day what I believe it's like when one dies. I asked them to recall what their existence was like BEFORE they were born, and informed them that their existence AFTER their death will be exactly the same. (I can't remember where I first read that explanation but I like it.)
If you haven't already read them, some books I might recommend, as a bit of light relief from your psychology textbooks, would be the following. Your library might have copies. The books by Shermer and Sagan are especially good as an introduction to applying critical thinking, reason and science to weird claims.
"Why People Believe Weird Things ~ Pseudoscience, Superstition, and other confusions of our Time", Michael Shermer
If you haven't already done so get a copy of yesterday's Sunday Herald and read the first letter to the editor, written by a Fiona Allen of Papatoetoe. She admits the supposed information gathered by the Sensing Murder psychics is neither factual nor scientific and will never be used in court. Nevertheless the dead do still exist and sceptics will never understand the contact experienced by the psychics. The letter shows how difficult it is to get people to think and approach all subjects with scepticism. Their beliefs are paramount everything else going through deaf ears. With the aid of such people Deb Webber and co. will continue to run laughing to the bank.
Great web site. Back here in the USA we've updated the critical overview of TV's psychic detective Noreen Renier (a regular on the Psychic Detectives TV series and also Psychic Investigators, and the only psychic who lectured at the FBI). That critical review is now posted at www.amindformurder.com - Thanks for the solid work.
I think you should rename your site "septic skeptics" - I've never read such poisonous words. Why don't you try looking at why you're so angry before inflicting it onto the world. It's horrible.
The exchange between a medium and client is priceless. It's called closure. The wonderful thing about it is that the person who has lost someone is the one who is helped and that's the gift of being a medium - the ability to do that is very humbling. I feel sorry for you and your cynicism.
Kim, I suspect you haven't really watched Sensing Murder all that closely have you? The one thing the program never offers is "closure". Nothing is ever resolved. We are never any closer to discovering who the murderer was or where the body is buried. The only ability mediums have is the ability to delude both themselves and their clients. I am not humbled by mediums, I am embarrassed by them, embarrassed that in this enlightened age there are still people who choose superstition over reason. You also say that the "exchange between a medium and client is priceless", yet strangely enough I have never met a medium who couldn't put a quite considerable price on their services. As for me being angry, you confuse anger with contempt.
I'm a skeptic. What's with the "Contrary to some of her previous work, she didn't take her clothes off in 'Sensing Murder', which is a shame as it would have improved it considerably."? This kind of crap allows readers to readily dismiss your article(s).
That comment was a dig at Ninox Television, the producers of Sensing Murder, who threatened us with legal action if we didn't remove images of Gibney on Sensing Murder. It was to remind them and their viewers that their serious, straight-laced investigator, was the same woman that in other productions was just as happy to prance around naked. It was to remind fans of Sensing Murder that although she was portrayed as being intimately involved in every murder investigation, she was just a B-grade actress playing a part, reading her lines in an Australian studio. It was just another example of how Ninox Television tried to influence how gullible viewers would relate to the psychics on Sensing Murder. You'd be surprised at how many Sensing Murder supporters actually believe that Gibney was involved in the investigations. And quite frankly, a little nudity on Sensing Murder would have improved it considerably in my view, or perhaps some humour or even some explosions like on MythBusters. Or perhaps a miracle, like solving a murder! It would certainly need some such incentive to make me waste any more time on their fantasy show. And I suspect any reader that dismisses our articles over this little joke has probably already made up their mind and is just looking for an excuse to stop reading.
Get on the Sensing Murder website now if you can ... Kelvin's in BIG trouble!!!
This page may also give you some background information on what he has been getting up to.
Thanks for the heads up on Kelvin. These people are scum to deceive others the way they do with their paranormal crap so it doesn't surprise me if they are deceiving people in other ways as well.
The Sensing Murder forum link was dead, but this doesn't surprise me either. The administrator would have no doubt deleted it as soon as she realised the damage it was doing to one of their chosen ones. The truth is not a value that is embraced on their forum. It's all about stroking fantasies populated by angels and hugs. No doubt someone will be contacting the Vatican to see how they hid their indiscretions from the public gaze.
Your joking? Kelvin Cruickshank cheating? lol I wonder if they'll call him "Cheatah" like ole' TW?
I believe Kelvin Cruickshank is more of a ‘mentalist’... (unfortunately nowhere near as good looking as Simon Baker J). If you spend time with him you may see that he reads people’s body language and listens for clues. Assumptions can be made by looking at people. I wonder how many people that have attended or will be attending his shows have emailed the office unwittingly giving details about their loved one ‘in spirit’. I know I have been sucked in the very same way!! When someone books into another show, workshop or trip... all he’d have to do would be to view all the emails from that person and gather the information that he has been GIVEN by the grieving. Funny how he can’t supply the information that WASN’T in the emails... (and in my case... when he tried to it was WRONG!!) and he talks a heck of a lot about our loved one’s ‘love for us’... well of course!... you can’t be wrong there – who wouldn’t want to hear it!! You see examples of these emails from people who have attended his shows on the bottom of his newsletters. Information Technology: the secret friend of the ‘psychics’... people don’t even seem to register that he has access to these emails and they forget they send them, I’m sure!
And he talks... and talks... and talks... about HIMSELF! - The long suffering psychic who puts up with so much to help others – how much he’s been through in his life. Anyone ever stopped to ask... is it true? Is it? Step back and think for yourselves. Don’t believe something because someone has said it... or it’s been written in a book.
Psychics who make money from other people’s misfortune... who get others to pay for their workshops and trips around the globe... ‘meeting’ lots of people (mostly younger women) along the way have a lot to answer for. Perhaps it would be interesting to go back and interview those who have been on his trips... what DID they get out of it? Are they still in contact with him? Why? Why not?
I used to believe this stuff... I was raised on it - After my experiences with him I think it’s all a load of shit. And unfortunately people fall for it... over and over.
Another trick for these ‘psychics’... play on the hearts of people... present yourself as a person with a big heart who wants to help – and who receives a lot of flak for helping others ... that really pulls at the heart-string of the good-hearted women out there... (Hey... doesn’t matter what you do or say off stage when the general public don’t see... the ground work’s been done!)... people believe what they ‘see’ with their own eyes, right?
What he says and does on stage is very different to what he says and does off stage - And his language! He’d make a truckie blush! Where’s the ‘spirituality’ in that? Where’s the “Keeping it real”? Is he a caring, spiritual person with a desire to help others - or isn’t he? What’s the truth... what he says on stage or what he does off stage?
People who make money from those who are desperate for messages from loved ones are parasites.
Thanks Susan for your revealing insight into Kelvin Cruickshank and psychic mediums in general. You're right in that most people just aren't aware just how much information they are giving to these people through body language, age, dress and apparently innocent comments, and if you can add to this with information from previous meetings, letters and emails, then these psychic mediums can make it appear as if they have some mysterious power, when they are doing nothing but cheating.
It's a shame that Cruickshank isn't as willing to demonstrate his powers to skeptics as he is to give messages to believers and run workshops etc. But then skeptics aren't willing to pay him to con us. The refusal of psychics and mediums to be tested by skeptics, although they are happy to be 'tested' by believers, should suggest to any intelligent person that they are hiding something. They continually complain to their followers that skeptics and scientists refuse to take them seriously, and yet they actively hide from anyone that might critically evaluate their claims.
I agree with you, these mediums are nothing but parasites, taking advantage of people's grief. However, since most parasites in the natural world don't know what they're doing, there is no thought or reason involved, then to be fair on ordinary parasites, psychic mediums should be labeled devious, shameless, conniving parasites instead.
Hi John, I just saw the thread on Kelvin and can't resist contributing.
I'm not sure if you've seen the articles in the NZ Herald or the Western Leader (or online), but I have been contacted by someone in NZ who says that she knows who killed my sister Tracey. She says she is willing to swear an affadavit that everything she has told the police and me is true.
She says she went to Kelvin Cruikshank a few years ago, about something completely unrelated to my sister's murder, but he started saying the names of the two men she says were involved in my sister's murder (she says she already knew that they had killed Tracey), as well as the name of the mother/wife and their address. He told her he had had the same 'visions' (not sure if that's what he calls them) while he was working on Sensing Murder. He told my contact that he was going to go to see the producers, to tell them about what he had 'seen'. And he didn't charge her for the reading, even though he apparently usually charges a few hundred dollars (How much??!!).
Seems strange then, that they went with Deb/Sue's 'murderer'....
I tried to contact Kelvin — several times. Assuming, as you do, that he would want to help me in my grief and my search for the truth. Strangely enough, he never replied to me :).
His PA did, and so did Cinna (Smith — Associate Producer of SM), but he was always abroad, or having babies, or something. I wasn't too fussed, and gave up and forgot about him. Until yesterday, when I received an email from his website. Here's what it said:
It's funny how when I contacted Kelvin (on several occasions) asking for help he ignored me — yet I get contacted when he wants to sell a tour date.
The press would love this!
By the way — I don't need to discover myself. I need the police to discover who murdered my sister.
Please remove my details from your mailing list. I have no time for people like Kelvin Cruikshank.
I hope you are well. Sorry for the delay in replying to you — I have only just returned from holiday (where I had no internet access).
The situation with Kelvin, as I recall it was this...
Prior to being filmed, Sensing Murder tested approximately 70 psychics. The psychics were tested to see if they could pick up information about solved cases. During Kelvin's test, (which involved a solved case), he also picked up a young woman with long blonde hair around the woman who was testing him (the associate producer Yvonne Grace). He kept returning to this spirit. At the end of the test reading, the producer pulled out the photo of Tracey, which she had with her in a folder (at that stage the cases for the series had not been selected and Yvonne had a lot of potential case file notes with her). Kelvin believed the girl he was picking up was the girl in the photo — Tracey. I saw this when I reviewed his testing tape. However, he did not go into any details (that I saw) about who may have been responsible. He just gave very general information that she had been murdered. Because his test case involved a totally different case, he was not asked to elaborate on Tracey's case. When it was later decided to feature Tracey's case on Sensing Murder, Kelvin was not selected to investigate because a) he had already seen Tracey's photo and b) he lived in Auckland and we tried as much as possible to select psychics that lived out of the area where a murder happened (to avoid the chance that they would have prior knowledge of a case). When I asked Kelvin recently about his initial test reading, he could recall very little and certainly did not provide any names or detail. I know your contact means well, but I am not sure that she is correct when she says Kelvin named a different person to Deb. He has no memory of this, and I didn't see him mention any names on the test tape.
I totally understand why you refuse to give up hope. There are far too many unanswered questions.
Best wishes,
Hi Debbie, thanks for your comments. No, I haven't seen the articles you mentioned.
[Note: The case Debbie is referring to was screened on Sensing Murder (January 10, 2006) Episode 1: The Patient Killer — Tracey Ann Patient]
To me, and you as well it seems, the most revealing aspect of your contact with Cruickshank is his greedy and insensitive attempt to get you to attend one of his shows, while at the same time refusing to reveal what he knows about your sister's murder.
Cruickshank supposedly claimed to your contact that he knew details of Tracey's murder, and he is on video tape claiming to the Sensing Murder producers that he knew details of Tracey's murder. But he has evidently not taken this information to the police, and nor is he at all interested in passing this information on to you, even though you have made several attempts to contact him for help. The most humane, caring, sympathetic and ethical action that Cruickshank could make would be to bring Tracey's murderers to justice, using the information and skills he claims to possess. This amazing deed would indirectly also bring him fame, wealth and validation in the eyes of his critics, which he desperately seeks. And yet he refuses to expose the murderers and completely ignores your requests for help. And then he has the arrogance to ask you to attend one of his tours in Fiji, which is nothing other than a thinly veiled request for money. I mean, 5 nights in a 5 star resort, what's that going to cost?
As for your other comments regarding what Cruickshank supposedly knows, like most things involving mediums and psychics, they usually raise more questions than answers.
Evidently your contact has been to the police with what she knows. But how did she know these names? Was she somehow involved in the investigation or were these names of suspects reasonably common knowledge in the community? I suspect that she would most likely have more plausible and believable reasons for accusing two men of murder than simply claiming that a ghost told her or that she saw them in a dream. If so, then the police have no doubt investigated the names given to them and dismissed them or found her accusations to be lacking any real support. If they are not going to take her accusations any further, they are certainly unlikely to take any notice of a medium who merely repeats the same names. For the police to instigate new investigations Cruickshank would have to provide new claims, not simply parrot names that they had already investigated and dismissed.
And if Cruickshank actually believed he knew the names of two murderers, plus the name of the mother/wife and their address, then why didn't he actually go to the police? If you have real, solid information about a murder, you don't talk to your TV producers (or your boss or your neighbour), you talk to the police. Obviously Cruickshank knew that his information was worthless and no better than a guess. With every murder that happens, there are always those in the community that suspect certain people of the crime, but often this is based on nothing more than a gut feeling or distrust of certain people. Thankfully our justice system doesn't allow the police to arrest people simply because someone thinks they 'look' guilty, otherwise our jails would be full of innocent people who were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. The fact is that Cruickshank (and other mediums) insist that they are getting their information from the murder victims themselves. These victims naturally know far more about the crime than just the names of their murderers, since they were there when the murder happened, and they evidently got to watch the events that followed from the spirit world. They know where their body was buried, they know where the murder weapon was hidden, they know what cars were used in the crime and they know where any stolen property can now be found. They know who is helping the murderers cover up their actions and they know what false alibis need to be exposed. And yet these murder victims consistently refuse to divulge any of this vital information which could solve their murder. And in fact in nearly all cases they even refuse to name their murderer, even if they knew who they were. Mediums almost never provide a murderer's surname, and if they do suggest a name, they usually only suggest several common Christian names like John or Jim or Jack or something beginning with J, or perhaps S. On the very, very rare occasion that they do provide a name that is linked to the investigation, it is usually because, like the rest of us, they have simply read it in the media or heard it from those close to the investigation. And like the rest of us, they can provide no details other than what they have heard from ordinary sources. And remember that even the Sensing Murder producers refused to use Cruickshank because they feared he was familiar with the murder simply through the media. All these mediums like Cruickshank are desperate to prove their powers and continually complain that the police and skeptics won't take them seriously, and yet they never provide the police or skeptics or even the grieving family with information that could solve the case and provide closure. Even if the police did ignore him, then Cruickshank could simply tell the family or even a skeptic where the body can be found. The police will soon take him seriously if the family finds the body. It's like if I said I could fly like Superman then the world would call me deluded, but one simple demonstration on my part and the world would believe. Likewise all we need from mediums is one simple demonstration that they know things that could only have come from the murder victim rather than the TV News. Why are they not interested in proving their claims? Do they like being called nutcases and con-artists?
As you noted, Cruickshank was not at all interested in solving your sister's murder, nor it seems were the Sensing Murder producers. Cruickshank supposedly had information that could solve a murder, but the producers went with mediums who knew nothing about it. They were simply trying to produce a program that skeptics wouldn't criticise, rather than trying to solve a murder. They were simply out to entertain. They knew that neither Deb, Sue nor Kelvin could produce any real leads, and omitted Kelvin to prevent any complaints that he might have already known of the case. If they believed Kelvin had a real connection with the victim and could have solved the case, they would have used him and made headlines worldwide.
Your contact said that Cruickshank told her the names relating to Tracey's murder after he began working on Sensing Murder, and yet Smith mentions Cruickshank talking about Tracey's murder before he was hired to work on Sensing Murder, during his test. If your contact is correct and Cruickshank came up with these 'visions' while working on Sensing Murder, then it doesn't matter what he said or didn't say on his earlier test tape. The point is, did Cruickshank later go to the producers with this new information and if he did, what was their response then? Or since Cruickshank wasn't going to be involved in this Sensing Murder episode, did the producers naively let him know what the case was and failed to hide case details from him since he wasn't going to be involved? Remember that your contact said that she didn't go to Cruickshank about Tracey's murder, yet she did somehow know the murderer's names. Did she let it be known to Cruickshank that she knew about Tracey, and had the producers innocently mentioned suspect names to Cruickshank which he then passed on to your contact just to impress her?
The Sensing Murder producers continually insist that the mediums were never told what cases they would be investigating. And yet here associate producer Cinna Smith admits in her email that another associate producer revealed to Cruickshank that one of the cases that they were considering for the show concerned Tracey, and showed him a photograph of her. Even though in the end Cruickshank wasn't chosen for this specific case, there was nothing stopping him telling Deb or Sue or other mediums that he knew would be on the show that Tracey's murder was a potential case. Forewarned they could then easily research the case on the chance that it was featured.
Also the Sensing Murder producers seemingly believe that these mediums can peak at face down photographs and into closed, remote places, so why would you take a folder of the potential Sensing Murder cases to a meeting with a prospective medium? Remember that the producers were trying to hide these cases from their prospective mediums. Or were they? Did she have the folder of unsolved cases with which to quiz the mediums as to their knowledge of each case, or maybe even to give them advanced warning of what cases might be worth researching if they got the job? The presence of the folder of unsolved cases and the mediums in the same room is as suspicious as an exam student having a copy of the exam questions under his desk. While you might insist that the case files would be quite secure in a closed folder, this is not the case if the medium really has paranormal powers, and the producers claim that they truly do. And remember that Cruickshank didn't even need these powers, as the producer admits taking out one of these secret murder cases and discussing it with Cruickshank. How many other secret cases were also revealed and discussed?
I had to laugh when Sensing Murder's Cinna Smith ended her email with, 'There are far too many unanswered questions'. When you have a crack team of psychic mediums at your disposal there shouldn't be any unanswered questions. That's what they're there for, it's what they claim to be able to do, to use their paranormal powers to get answers. Smith admits that they aren't getting the required answers, and knows that not one case has been solved by a psychic anywhere in the world, and yet she keeps defending them. Smith and her production team are no different from her team of fraudulent mediums, they are all just exploiting the gullibility of others to make money. Their driving force is greed, not justice.
Hi John — Good response to Debbie.
So Kelvin is apparently happy to tell a person important details of Tracey’s murder when that person didn’t even ask for the information but when Tracey’s distraught sister proactively requests the same information he ignores her and asks her to buy an expensive trip to Fiji instead. This must be what Kelvin means by “Keep it real”.
Re Cinna Smith’s comments . .
Why take a folder containing “a lot of potential case file notes” (including photos) of unsolved cases to testing that only involved solved cases? Doesn’t she realise that genuine psychics have x-ray vision?
Sensing Murder producers claim they use psychics on the show to help investigate unsolved murders because they claim they believe psychics are genuine. Yet when a person that claims to be a psychic (and later becomes one of their stars) claims he has information regarding a particular unsolved case they not only don’t ask him for details of that information they also don’t use him to investigate that case on the show — AMAZING! Obviously the “integrity” of the show is more important to them than helping to solve the case.
Smith’s excuses why Kelvin wasn’t used on the case are pathetic at best . . .
“a) he had already seen Tracey's photo”
So what? They don’t get to see the face side of the photo before they identify and sex, age and name the victim on the show so how could seeing the photo anytime earlier be of any help? How would he know it was the same photo? If he has genuine psychic abilities (as they claim they believe he has) then he could have “seen” the photo in the folder even if it wasn’t actually shown to him. He (and other “genuine psychics“) would have also been able to “see” all the other files and photos in the folder as well.
“and b) he lived in Auckland and we tried as much as possible to select psychics that lived out of the area where a murder happened (to avoid the chance that they would have prior knowledge of a case).”
Details of all murder and missing people cases are well documented in the national media (usually including photos). A person living in the general area of a crime doesn’t necessarily have any better or worse knowledge of that crime than anyone else living anywhere in the country. Besides, unsolved murder and missing persons cases are the “bread and butter” of psychics and it’s a safe bet that they keep themselves fully informed on the details of such cases. That they have “no prior knowledge” of any case is a ridiculous claim.
Hi Tony, all good points. It quite obvious to you and I and fellow skeptics that Cinna Smith and the rest of the Ninox Television Sensing Murder production team are only in business to make money and really bad reality TV programs. You only have to think of other public events, such as discovering a new medical cure, inventing a new energy source, finding the remains of a Spanish galleon, or even discovering a dead body in your garage as recently happened. These people don't all suddenly suppress their discoveries and rush off to a TV production company to make a reality program that publicises their new found discovery a year or so later. New cures and energy sources are immediately marketed, sunken galleons are immediately researched and the police are immediately informed of dead bodies. These fraudulent TV producers and their compliant mediums know that they have nothing of worth or of merit to go public with, to take to the police or to reveal on the TV News. They know that the only way that they can get money from the public is to deviously wrap up lies and fantasies and have them tearfully delivered by mentally challenged losers in a scam masquerading as fact.
If these mediums could solve murders, or solve anything in fact, then they don't need to wait until a greedy TV producer agrees to employ them before they do so. Why do they only investigate murders during the production of a Sensing Murder episode and not in the months and years between shows? They continually say they are in the business of helping people and of giving grieving families closure, and yet if Sensing Murder doesn't pay them to comment on a murder then they seemingly couldn't care less. They spend their time between Sensing Murder episodes charging a gullible public for the great privilege of simply being in their presence. If Sensing Murder isn't paying them, then all thought of their crime-fighting career is forgotten.
With a new Sensing Murder series due shortly on our screens, it's worth noting once again to readers that Tony has offered the Sensing Murder psychics Kelvin Cruickshank, Sue Nicholson and Deb Webber a psychic challenge. Demonstrate their ability, the same as they are willing to do on every Sensing Murder episode and earn $20,000 each. They have refused. He then offered them $20,000 just to participate, theirs to keep win or lose. None have responded. All they have to do is exactly what they so effortlessly do each week on Sensing Murder and they would walk away with $40,000, or $20,000 if they're having a bad week. Why won't they take the challenge, and why don't their producers who speak so highly of their abilities encourage them to participate? If they feel guilty about making such easy money, then donate it all to a worthy charity of their choice. They obviously have the same confidence in their abilities as we do. They know they would fail and that even $20,000 in their bank account wouldn't make up for their abject failure before their dewy-eyed minions.
I wouldn't even be surprised if Sensing Murder hasn't written it into their employment contract that they are expressly forbidden to take any and all psychic challenges. They know the tricks they have to perform and the lies they have to tell to make their mediums look good on TV. Thus they are perfectly placed to know without doubt that their trained seals would fail any real test miserably, and that this public humiliation would impact badly on the viewer rating of their show. The Sensing Murder producers may be greedy, devious, unethical, exploitive, uncaring and even gullible to various degrees, but they're not completely stupid when it comes to knowing what things they need to hide from their viewers. It will be interesting to see what public interest their new series generates. Like their TV production company that has been placed in receivership, has the show also finally failed in the eyes of the general public?
Hi Debbie, I just want to say I am so sorry for all that you've been through.
Anyone with a heart who had knowledge of your sister's death would do all they could to help out.
Take care, and take comfort from those who love you. xxx
Hi John, [my last attempt at a post disappeared.] I can't remember everything I wrote but the gist of it was that it's the things that my contact tells me she was a witness to in 1976, rather than the things that Kelvin said to her, which interest me. I only wrote to you about Kelvin because I thought it would interest you — and be further proof, if any was needed, that sensing murder is purely 'light entertainment' and should not be taken seriously — although I didn't find it very entertaining to watch an actress portraying Tracey being abducted, murdered and dumped.
We stumbled across the programme by sheer fluke — my husband was channel hopping and he saw my sister's name on the TV. The programme was just starting. It was a case of not wanting to watch but not being able to stop. The producers say they speak to relatives first but they did not speak to, or have approval from, anyone in my family. They tried to contact my parents via the police but my parents did not want to get involved. They have been through enough; they don't need c**p like that. I have advised them not to watch the programme if it ever rears its head on TV again.
By the way, the 'so many unanswered questions' that Cinna refers to are the questions I am waiting for the police to answer, not any questions raised by SM. Unfortunately it appears that the police are trying to discredit my contact (and they are not telling the full truth in the articles I have seen so far, either) — but she has raised many pertinent questions that, for some reason, they seem reluctant to answer.
Anyway, I am aware that this thread is about SM, not my sister's murder.
You may be amused to hear that I received a reply from Kelvin today. He apologised for sending me the invite to Fiji — apparently that was his PA's fault. He also apologised for not replying to my emails. He said they hadn't been passed on to him — apparently that was his (ex) manager's fault.
I haven't replied.
Hi Debbie. So psychic medium Kelvin Criuckshank is blaming his PA and manager for making mistakes that he didn't know about. Why is it that these psychics can never detect or be warned about problems happening in their own lives? Shouldn't he have felt a vibe that something wasn't right, or maybe one of his millions of spirits could have dropped a hint?
And now that he has been made aware of your emails and request for the information he has about your sister, I'm assuming he still hasn't offered to provide you with the details? Wouldn't the best apology he could offer be to solve Tracey's murder?
You got a reply because all he cares about is his reputation and how your exposure of his methods might affect ticket sales.
Hi John, re your last post — No, he hasn't offered to help. Funny, that....
This is what he wrote to me:
I just wanted to apologise for the fact that you received a mass email regarding my Fiji retreat. Several people received this email in error. My new PA accidentally sent it to everyone instead of just those who had requested newsletters and notifications. I am also sorry that none of your emails to me have ever been answered. I have never personally seen or been made aware of them. For the past three years I had a manager who was dealing with my website and all incoming emails. She was instructed to forward emails such as yours onto me. Late last year I discovered this had not been happening. This is one of the reasons I terminated our working relationship. I have slowly been working through the list of emails that have never been responded to.
Many years ago, when I first tested for Sensing Murder, I believe your sister's spirit came to me briefly. I was actually doing a reading on another case as a test but a vision of someone who I believe was Tracey kept coming through. In the end the person who was testing me pulled out a photo of Tracey and asked if this was the girl I was seeing. I picked up a connection with West Auckland and the fact that she had been murdered — I believe by someone she did not know. We did not go into any detail after that (as I was supposed to be doing a reading on another case). I saw the programme, and believe Sue and Deb came up with many interesting leads, which I hope will continue to be followed up.
Kind regards,
Kelvin Cruickshank
Hi there,
Get on the Sensing Murder website now if you can ... Kelvin's in BIG trouble!!!
This is here ... he's been caught cheating on his girlfriend a couple of weeks ago and he is having a baby this month!! All his fans are fuming ... they started the thread using Tiger Woods instead of Kelvin's name ...
This page may also give you some background information on what he has been getting up to.
Debbie: She says she went to Kelvin Cruikshank a few years ago, about something completely unrelated to my sister's murder, but he started saying the names of the two men she says were involved in my sister's murder.
Debbie needs to tell the whole story not just part of it. Debbie knows very well that Kelvin didnt just start mentioning details to her "contact". Her contact ASKED Kelvin about Tracey's murder. Debbies "contact" is infact a psychic.
“Margaret” needs to get her facts straight. If she looked at Debbie’s post, she would see that she said “someone from NZ” went to see Kelvin.. not Debbie herself!
And the Tiger thread: if people read between the lines they could see that a certain beloved man from NZ who has still sucked people in had been doing the dirty on his partner, who he then raved on about his current squeeze being the best thing that happened to him. But obviously Margaret didn’t “get” it. Defamation is untruths.. some people contributing to the Tiger thread knew the truth of what this NZ bloke had been doing. And believe me, they are NOT lies. Period.
What makes me angry is not psychics as such but people that come across one way and hide it from their “supporters” to make it look like they are a perfect person, and after reading some SM posts, it seems that a certain person has probably been in contact with members pleading innocence, which is sad to see.... why can’t people just tell the truth, it’s the ones that don’t know the truth, and eventually get hurt finding out they have been lied to or find out in years to come that their loved one has been lied to about infidelities.
Well Missy you need to learn to read -because you seem to have failed to comprehend what I wrote.I'll try to go slow so you understand.
Margaret, i'm curious - Do you know Debbie personally, or do you know Kelvin Cruickshank personally?
Hi I would just like to make a comment to the tiger woods thread and what was said on it. WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF ANYONES what Kelvin or Tiger or whoever does in their own PRIVATE life? If you put it all into the context of our own private lives then whatever it is accused he has done is between his partner and him, NO ONE ELSE. My life is my own, what I do in it has nothing to do with anyone and just because Kelvin is seen on a tv screen or stands up in front of the audience makes it no different, he still has a PRIVATE behind closed doors life, like we all do. Next you will be gossiping about how much toliet paper he uses cos you heard rumours about it!! If the private lives of someone else excites you so much then you need more excitement in your own. Oh and for the books, Kelvin is a very gifted psychic and a fully geniune guy, the straws that you lot are grasping at is entertaining though. I have done his workshops and his shows, and he is fully connected from his heart. Top Bloke!!
QUOTE: (Margaret)
Comment:
now that's bullshite... if the thread was removed because somethings were posted that were defamatory against Tiger Woods...then half of the SM Board should/would equally be removed, because there have been many, many potentially "defamatory" posts made against other people... e.g. John Edward, Colin Fry, Lisa Williams, Sylvia Brown, Sue Nicholson, Deb Webber...to name but a few...so the question actually is "Why was this particular thread (along with another) removed simultaneously???" ...under SM's Admin's grounds of "Defamation" to Tiger Woods!!!!! Not on your life!!!! I sense something else! For goodness sakes...other media has printed far worse
"Fully connected from his heart".. my opinion is that, that is not the part of the body he likes to connect with. So, to summarise, the facts are facts, not rumours or lies. The issue of the public figure keeping private, unfortunately when other private lives are afffected in this situation, the circle cannot but widen. And lastly Kat condones this type of behavior whether a public figure or not, am I right Kat? In my opinion you must be totally smitten, like these other women who think he is "hot" (so they say on eg.. facebook), and of course a public figure that many get to meet in person, and it is quite silly that you may think its ok for him to do things that are morally wrong but Im sure you would have a different opinion if it was closer to home.
You can actually try if you like to prove his innocence but that is impossible.
Anonymous - Even if these allegations are true, what gives you the right to publise them on the internet?? What he does in his private life is his buisness - no one elses. From where I'm sitting it's nothing but sour grapes & typical woman scorned. If it is true, maybe the woman/women concerned need to take stock & have a reality check. The fact that he described himself as single for a very long time should have been a big fat clue to her/them that he wasnt serious about them. When he finally found a nice lady he wanted to commit his life too out come these bitter,deluded fans trying to pull him down and for what??? All because he didnt choose them?? They need to grow up and get some counselling for being so pathetic - as equally pathetic and vengeful as those gold digging whores who sold their storys about Tiger.
Margaret, I fully agree with your post, this is all coming out from bitterness!!! (Misreading) Anonymous, there are only TWO people that can ever have the FULL facts, everybody else persumes. If it is one of those two people feeding you with these facts then have you heard the others side too? If you are one of these two people then it is low to publicise to the world what goes on in the privacy of TWO grown up CONSENTING adults. Just as low as the talk shows where one person brings the problem they have with a person to the public eye, when they should first take it to that person. Yes he is in the public eye with what he does spiritually, but he is also a human being that deserves the right to a private life behind closed doors. I feel alot of bitterness from your post. You say I condone this behaviour, if the two people are consenting then the consequences of that behaviour sits with them.Your opinion of me being totally smitten is wrong, I believe we are all human and we all have temptations and get ourselves into tempting situations at some point in life, we all make mistakes, we all have a right to say no. I respect him alot. But I am happily married thanks! So nope I am not smitten. I get defensive when people are unfairly judged because of one person's bitterness and then others taking their word only for what went on. Two sides to every story. I am not blinded by light either, another wrong assumption. I see clearly WE ALL have two sides to us, No one is perfect all of the time and may slip up, but once again if two people are consenting then the consequences of their actions sits with them. The only people who know the full truth are those two involved. And prehaps one of those two is now bitter about it all and is stretching the truth to make a bigger deal of it all to get attention after being let down. Life chucks us curve balls to learn from, at some point we have to move on for our own sake. This isn;t worth the energy to carry it on, so I will withdraw from commenting further, it is all old news, time has moved forward, hope for the sake of well being others can too. My opinion of his geniuness still stands, I see him as a human being, he is not perfect, but he is out there helping people to find hope and happiness again in times of alot of sadness and confusion. He is flowing the energy of love from spirit out into the world, and no matter how many people try to stop that through nasty critisism, etc, he keeps going, standing up to all the flack he gets, because he believes others come first, love from spirit and their messages are more important than what he has to endure. I admire his strength and love for spirit and for others who need those messages from spirit before they can heal. This world needs love sweet love, and I will stand behind those that get off their behinds and share it out. We are all humans, non perfect humans, so if you think you are more holy than someone else then yep throw stones, but you will get them back, cos no one is more holy. NO ONE IS PERFECT!
I think you will find his name has been mentioned by “Kat” concerning this. There has already been stuff all over the internet as well !
Isn’t it funny how believers have been arriving at a sceptics website. Hmmm. I recall “pinkie pie” on SM as well as another website said oh so very similar words ie “women scorned”...which makes me wonder .. is Margaret.. a certain psychic, or must be very close to one?
There is being “single” and then there is “already in a relationship”. I guess it must be a comfort to some people that partners can be very under standing, and I guess in this day and age too there are many who are into open relationships too. I am very confused about these people condoning this behaviour still and blaming it on the other(s) like ? “,deluded fans trying to pull him down and for what??? “.. umm ... fans?????? Who are these people that are deluded, and who are these people who are the “fans? I think you should realise not all women are a fan of yours.. I mean his. This is where the mask comes in, and also denial of close “fans” of his.. I think the guy should get a grip and not use an excuse such as women scorned. All I can say is ..if you are a believer, i guess they would say “what comes around goes around” or ah well, karma will catch up some day.
The Sensing Murder website is quite amusing to watch. I'm surprised no one has complained about how the moderators decides who does and doesn't get banned, for eg the ones which got banned late last year relating to the tiger thread I guess (although not sure why that was), and yet there is one poster who uses the fowlest abusive language against other SM members, and lol, spiritual people post that it is just "creative language". What a joke lol.
Not that it’s of any great consequence but there seems to be two “Tony’s” posting on this thread and I’m not the one who posted #57 (the “Tiger” post). My view on the matter is that if people put themselves on a pedestal and make a fortune from the public by way of celebrity then they are open game for all the valid criticism they get.
I was a member (ynot) of the SM Forum for a couple of years but got banned without warning or reason. When I politely enquired as to the reason I never got a reply. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that their forum is about as fair, open and honest as their show.
Quote: Isn't it funny how believers have been arriving at a sceptics website. Hmmm. I recall "pinkie pie" on SM as well as another website said oh so very similar words ie "women scorned"...which makes me wonder .. is Margaret.. a certain psychic, or must be very close to one?
No, i am “not” one of the other “people”. I am not bitter, just appalled by this behaviour, by someone that promotes themselves as being all love and all light. It’s hard to see others being deceived, now especially those idolising fans who take their word as gospel. Open your eyes, use sound judgement, don’t be so gullible.
You say stretching the truth? Like i said, the person on the other side is telling you fat woppas, or you are just presuming .
Holy? Me? well no, I am not religious at all. I don’t have any urges to do anything behind my partners back, if I did, i would have made that choice and there must be something wrong in my marriage/relationship for that to happen. But that is just me. Mind you, I am not a public figure. Just look at Tiger Woods, in my opinion people like him use their status to lure women. And in my opinion they can lure them in whichever way they choose, whether it’s a big sob story about their relationship, or money, or whatever.
Oh, and BTW, it was "Margaret" that brought up an old post about the tiger thread on SM.
Reading the above comments concerning Kelvin Cruickshank it appears to us to revolve around two concerns. Is Cruickshank really a genuine guy, and does the public have a right to know what goes on in people's private lives?
The comments on the Sensing Murder forum evidently started with Tiger Woods. In our view, as far as his golf game is concerned, whether he cheats on his wife with porn actresses, cocktail waitresses and numerous other silicone inflated bimbos is irrelevant. In this regard the only thing that Woods is claiming to be is the world's best golfer. However Woods has chosen to go beyond the game of golf and promote himself as a person for monetary gain. Advertisers used Wood's publicly perceived image as a loving family man, and Woods happily accepted their payments of millions of dollars to actively promote that image, claiming again and again that the most important thing to him was his family, his wife and children. More important even than golf. It is this positive public image of Woods combined with his golfing prowess that sold products. No advertiser uses a sportsperson, actor or public figure that is brilliant at what they do but is not all that well liked as a person. The public has to really like and respect the real people used in adverts, over and above their career skills, for them to be successful in promoting products.
But if the public person in an advert is only playing a role, albeit secretly, then they are nothing but an actor. They are pushing a product under false pretences. They are lying, knowing that if they pretend to be a certain character then the public will respond by buying their products. They are effectively saying: You trust me, so you can also trust a product that I recommend. But this trust is built on a lie. When someone's private actions show that their public claims are nothing but a sham, a cunning ploy to market their business and make them rich, then we believe that the public does have a right to know how someone's private and public lives contradict each other.
We buy certain advertised products over others, not only because they appeal to us, but because we believe we can trust the claims made about that product by its spokesperson, whether that is a public figure like Tiger Woods or the company head themselves, such as the Warehouse's Stephen Tindall.
If what people do in their private lives impacts on the image they project in their public lives, then yes the public has a right to be told. If something they do in private doesn't affect how they do their job or how they attract clients to their business, then it should remain private. If for example a person is employed as a financial adviser, then the fact that he likes to wear women's clothing in the privacy of his own bedroom while assembling Star Wars models has no bearing on his ability to be a good financial adviser. However, if it was shown that in his private life he had made numerous personal financial investments, all of which had failed badly, then this knowledge is paramount in helping people decide whether they should use his services.
How does this apply to Kelvin Cruickshank? Does his ability to attract private clients, people to his workshops and an audience to his shows rely on a certain image? We believe it does. Naturally first and foremost he must be seen to be a 'gifted psychic', and this is possibly all that is needed to attract an audience to his shows. But at his shows most people have no personal interaction with him and many leave disappointed with his performance. However private clients and workshops are different and require something extra to keep them enamoured with him and bring about repeat visits.
Psychics are, unfortunately, a dime a dozen, so why do people choose one over another. Available access and perceived ability of course, but time and time again, people rave on about how wonderful a particular psychic is as a person, how caring, loving, helpful, sympathetic and loyal they are. Psychic groupies actually rave on more about the psychics themselves, as real people, than they do about the information that they provide. This is only to be expected since psychics fail to provide any information of value so all that's really left to discuss is the psychic themselves. If you're going to spend time and money with a psychic as a client or at a workshop then you want one that you like and trust. Thus it is crucial for all psychics, and Cruickshank is no exception, to create and maintain a public persona that people feel is caring, loving and trustworthy.
A comment from Kat appears to be typical of how Kelvin is viewed by his fans: 'Kelvin is a very gifted psychic and a fully geniune guy… I have done his workshops and his shows, and he is fully connected from his heart. Top Bloke!!'
Therefore the way Cruickshank treats people in private will be a good indicator of whether the image he presents to clients is real, or merely a fake character that he plays in order to make money. Note that in public, on TV, at his shows and in magazine articles, Cruickshank claims that his goal is to use his mystical powers to comfort people and give them closure, especially the grieving families featured on Sensing Murder. Yet out of the media spotlight Cruickshank spends his time charging clients exorbitant fees for private readings and workshops at Fijian five star resorts. All thought of helping people gain closure is forgotten, as evidenced by his ignoring Debbie's request to pass on what he claimed to know about her sister's murder. From personal experience, we know Cruickshank can be two-faced. Having no doubt been told of our website, he sent us an unsigned insulting email, evidently believing that he had done so anonymously. When we replied saying we knew it was from him, he then replied in a very friendly manner wishing us all the best, and signing it KC this time.
We of course believe that what Cruickshank does is nothing but a crock, and thus he must rely entirely on his persona to attract and keep clients. He gives them nothing of value when it comes to information from 'the other side' and therefore it's their personal interaction with Cruickshank that really colours their memories of their session with him. A positive public image is crucial for Cruickshank to sell his services. If these projected personality and ethical traits don't match those in his private life, then he is selling a lie, and the public has a right to know and decide whether they still want to purchase his services. Also if people feel that they can't believe in the image he presents in public, might they not also start to question the image he is painting of granny in the afterlife?
At the end of the day, the one thing that people really want from Cruickshank and his ilk is information from 'the other side', and if he could provide this then whether he was a nice guy or not wouldn't really matter. Tiger Woods may have lost a lot of respect from the public, but no one can take away the fact that he is a great golfer. But Kelvin is different. He is most definitely deluding people regarding his psychic powers, so if it also turns out that ethically he is not a great person either, then he has lost everything. He is scamming his fans with both his claimed powers and his personality.
Tiger woods is a professional golfer, and a very good one, what he does with his private time is his business. Kelvin is a professional medium and a very good one, what he does in his private time is his own business. Nope don;t see how they are different SB. What is different is you do not believe in Kelvins psychic abilities (but you do in Tigers golfing abilities), so therefore you think he has to use his good looks and his charms to win people over on a one on one reading? Workshops and oversea retreats and shows etc all have people choosing to go, not being forced to pay up and go. People choose to do them. Most people go to see him for his abilitiy, some may go for more, but can he be blamed for that. Also how many of you single or not seriously involved males would turn down women throwing themselves at you? Male and females are different, males are happy with a bit of something with nothing attatched, women are looking for a man to attatch to, (not all) so has anyone asked these women who are making allegations if they thought there was something everlasting in their supposed encounters with him, did they offer themselves because they wanted a commitment, or were they happy with just a bit of fun.
Kat - “Tiger woods is a professional golfer, and a very good one”
Correct - Tiger regularly demonstrates his abilities in an open and honest manner and thereby provides credible and obvious evidence of his golfing abilities.
Kat - “what he does with his private time is his business.”
Incorrect - Tiger has made his private life part of his business by claiming that he is a dedicated and honest family man that values his family more than golf. This claim has allowed him to secure more lucrative advertising sponsorship contracts than if he had only claimed to be a very good golfer. That his “honest family man” claim has proven to be false gives people the right to criticise his exposed dishonesty and for advertisers to cancel their contracts with him.
Kat - “Kelvin is a professional medium and a very good one”
Unproven - Kelvin has never demonstrated his claimed abilities in an open and honest manner and continues to refuse to do so. That he is a psychic (let alone a good one) is merely the unsubstantiated claim and belief of Kat and other believers.
Kat - “what he does in his private time is his own business.”
Incorrect - Kelvin claims to be a special person with a special “God given gift” and he presents himself as being a selfless, nice person that is full of “peace, love and light” and concern for others. Kelvin’s “private person” is what he sells as much as his psychic claims. If any of the accusations claimed against him are true then these claims have been proven to be as false as Tiger’s claims have. Besides - Kelvin’s inappropriate behavior has apparently often occurred on his “retreats” for which people have paid him a substantial amount of money. This is therefore paid time not private time.
If another series of Sensing Murder is produced I wonder if Ninox or TVNZ will continue to pay him for his tainted celebrity that has obviously been built on his less than honest claims and inappropriate practices
Very well said re all your comments SB Team! I and many many others would agree.
Obviously the wheels on the bus where KC's cronies are concerned. Mind you, reading other forums, I don't recall seeing more than two people condoning this unprofessional behaviour.
"offer themselves because they wanted a commitment, or were they happy with just a bit of fun. umm.. i'm sorry but you are definitely giving your opinion on tiger here. If you knew facts then you would know that this is not the case for the other women concerned in this case.
If you want to keep protecting him, fine, as you and he wish. But others here have the freedom to voice our concerns. Toodaloo.
Thanks for those excellent comments Tony. Saves us the bother of trying to say the same thing.
It's quite ironic that supporters of psychics defend peoples' right to keep their private life private, when the main goal of psychics is to use their mystical powers to covertly intrude into the private lives of others. They either seek out the spirits of the dead and request them to provide unknown information about the private lives of the living, or they directly connect with their targets themselves, using the likes of telepathy, and literally read their thoughts, scan their memories and spy on their lives. People seek out psychics because they are desperate to learn something about someone that they have not been privy to in real life. Psychics are nothing but 'spiritual' private investigators, digging up the information that their clients are desperate to know. Physics and their clients have as much respect for the private lives of others as does a dog for a lamppost.
The spirits that some psychics (or mediums) claim to talk to are evidently nothing but shameless voyeurs and peeping toms. They can go anywhere undetected and spy on whomever they wish. The concept of a 'private life' is meaningless to spirits. They are not stopped by a door or a lock or a sign saying 'Private Property. Keep Out'. If they were real, they would be in your bedroom, your bathroom, your doctor's office and with you on holiday. The only reason that psychics can claim to gain knowledge from the spirits is because the spirits, and therefore the psychics, have no respect for the private lives of the living. Psychics like Cruickshank are continually telling us during their readings that the spirits are watching over us, and they are only too willing to reveal anything and everything to him, even though he is a complete stranger. If true, the belief that we have a 'private life' is a fallacy. The 'souls' that are privy to every detail of my 'private life' is astronomical compared to the few living souls that don't, and they are more than happy to gossip to the likes of Cruickshank about it.
We also have the psychics that claim to use ESP, telepathy, remote viewing and even those that use divination tools such as astrology, tarot and numerology to open a window into the private lives of others. If real, then a psychic could be reading my thoughts as I type these words, and will be privy to the ideas that I elect not to publish, privy to my private thoughts. Others claim to be able to see what other people are seeing or simply view scenes from a distance. Cruickshank claims to have visions of real time events and places, not just ones from the past. How do we know he doesn't receive visions of his sexy neighbour in the shower? Is that an invasion of privacy? If I did it by spying through a bathroom window it would be a crime, but is it a crime if a psychic does it from his armchair?
And why do people go to these silly workshops run by psychics? Because they have been told that we all possess latent psychic abilities, and if harnessed correctly, they too could tap into this psychic spy network. Then they wouldn't need to pay psychics exorbitant fees for information that isn't in the public arena. They could psychically snoop around and satisfy their curiosity themselves, from the comfort of their own kitchen.
People that truly respect the private lives of others do not seek out psychic detectives. Only those with an insatiable need to know what others are up to and how others feel about them, both dead and alive, resort to psychic snooping.
Thankfully none of this psychic nonsense is real, except in the minds of its believers. Kat's claim that Cruickshank is 'doing such a good job' is like saying 'Sensing Murder' is 'doing such a good job' at solving murders. Every psychic on the planet has proved themselves an abject failure by failing to convincingly demonstrate their claimed skills on the world stage, unlike Tiger Woods. We can all rest easy content in the knowledge that Granny isn't spilling the beans on what happened behind the bike sheds at high school. Much to the annoyance of psychics, our private lives will remain private. Any embarrassing revelations will come from real world sources, like spurned lovers and undeleted text messages.
I seriously question the motives of these people who have "come forward".After reading what was posted on the Sm website yesterday, it seems that the woman didnt have the permission of her "friends" were directly effected by a failed fling with Kelvin.It appeared that she had been a friend of Kelvins & was morally offended by how he chose to conduct his private life -why didnt she speak up at the time -why wait so long.Frankly I'm so glad I dont have such judegemental friends as her in my life.Why arent the women directly effected speaking out???
Kat, you continuously contradict yourself. You say it’s your last post...then you post again. You say people should move on, then you go on about it all again. You keep saying you have to “meet people before making a judgement”, yet you have no trouble judging those who have been hurt by Kelvin Cruickshank and have spoken out about their experiences. On the SM board if a person had been vexed by someone and aired their grievances, you would rush to console and comfort, yet on this topic, where your beliefs are challenged, you close off and believe what suits you – in fact, you add to the hurt those people have experienced by implying that they are lying or being bitter. It seems you think that just because it involves Kelvin Cruickshank, the allegations couldn’t possibly be true! That seems like childish, dangerous and very misguided (or possibly brainwashed) logic. Not to mention the fact that you are repeatedly rubbing salt into the wounds of those who have had their lives damaged by Kelvin Cruickshank.
An interesting post you left on SM and similar on this board:
“How many men out there pass up a women throwing themselves at him if he is not seriously involved with someone? Is it right for society only to expose the privacy of those in the public eye and everyone else gets away with alot worse? Do people in the public eye have to be saints, because they are in the public eye? I feel sorry for the people in the public eye cos their life is open for everyone, they do not get the right to privacy we all are entitled by law to, because they are in the public eye.”
Who threw themselves at Kelvin? Seriously, is that what you’ve been told? Or is it just a convenient assumption to make you feel comfortable and ‘right’ in your beliefs? And isn’t living with a woman and having a baby with her “seriously involved”? Even if a woman ever did throw herself at Kelvin (and not all of us think he is good looking – extremely charismatic when he wants to be though), does that give him a green light to do what he wants regardless of the emotional wellbeing of his clients? You say with all conviction that all of this is coming out of bitterness...where’s your proof of such a strong statement? Have you met with those involved and gotten the “both sides of the story” that you are so fond of telling others to do? Or do you just believe what you are told by one party and then vehemently defend that one side - without even considering that there may be truth to the allegations? You talk of ‘privacy of those in the public eye’ - apparently it’s ok for him to have articles about his (supposedly wonderful) life published in a magazine (when it suits/benefits him and for a fee) but it’s not ok to question the validity of what is being said, nor is it acceptable to you to present anything remotely negative, even though it’s true. Do you not think that is twisted logic?
It is absolutely right for those of us with a moral conscience to expose people for what/who they are, particularly when they are not what/who they pretend to be regardless of who they are - and especially when they have the capacity to affect many people - The world would be a crappy place to be otherwise. Last I checked there was still freedom of speech and an absolute right by law to tell the truth. Whether people like it or not is of little consequence - the truth is the truth. For me personally, I would rather hear any truth than to be told a lie. There is an interesting quote that comes to mind that fits well: “It doesn’t matter what lie you tell people, as long as it’s what they want to hear”...and unfortunately people make money and misery from that little life motto.
I’m not a fan of dishonesty...and not a fan of keeping my mouth shut to benefit someone with little regard for others’ feelings – I’m not going to let other people have their lives stuffed because some people would rather not hear the truth. Sometimes the truth isn’t nice, sometimes it makes us feel like crap...but the truth is always better than being deceived. At least people then have the information to make an INFORMED CHOICE.
Absolutely people go on his retreats etc, willingly. But do you think people would participate in such a retreat if they knew the ‘host’ had a personal agenda? Perhaps if his true motives were advertised in his promotional emails the number of ‘willing participants’ would dwindle. Again, back to ‘informed choice’. Need I remind you that there are people who have gone on his retreats who wish they had never gone – people who have been disturbed about the ‘lack of professionalism’ displayed? When you pay for a service you expect to get what you signed up for...I don’t see anything in his promotional material that adequately describes a lack of professionalism. The retreats are touted as a place to go to benefit you...not to mess with your head and leave you wishing you had never gone. I for one wish I had never met him.
When you say: “WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF ANYONES what Kelvin or Tiger or whoever does in their own PRIVATE life?” it seems that you have made it your business...you keep going on about it. If you don’t like it you have the option to ignore it – surely someone so convinced that Kelvin is such a ‘good bloke’ would easily dismiss claims to the contrary and “move on” without all the carry on...you have gotten yourself involved in it all, over and over. Why? Do you feel the need to prove your loyalty to him? There is obviously some pay off for you or you wouldn’t do it.
Take this scenario: Would you let a doctor operate on someone you cared about if you knew his success rate was questionable and there was a good chance your loved one would be worse off for having been treated? Or would you ignore those who forewarned you because they were just being “bitter...and let down”? Different? Yes, but very much the same. Haven’t you ever warned someone against doing something that you thought may hurt them? Why? Because you were bitter? Or because you cared enough to get off your backside and warn them? Friendships are made in SM...some people care enough about the people they have met in there to provide information which may save them a lot of hurt down the track – regardless of people who try to discredit them and brand them as “bitter”.
You have an enormous emotional investment in Kelvin and to admit that you were wrong would shake your foundations. You just can’t bear to consider it can you? Yet in ordinary circumstances you would heed the warnings of those who have had negative experiences and came forward to prevent others from similar experiences. It makes me wonder if you really know what has been happening.
The point still stands that he draws people in under the rouse of helping the bereaved and extremely vulnerable to move on...his website says that he offers “closure to those who never had the chance to say goodbye”, touching words. What is inappropriate is the close relationships he has with some clients. Apparently you don’t think there is a major problem with it. Perhaps that speaks more of your attitude to monogamy than ethics? Anyone in a position of trust, who is employed to assist others – particularly those who are at a low point in their lives and are struggling, has a moral obligation to be professional and to DO NO HARM. Other professionals see fit to do so – appropriate and well-founded laws prevent inappropriate relationships with clients for these professionals – yet he seems to think he has a rite of passage because no law covers his ‘domain’ and you seem to condone this. I can’t fathom how you can attempt to justify his actions by your offhanded remarks...”he’s only human, he’s not perfect”. None of us are...and I doubt that anyone is expecting perfection, but neither do they expect someone in his position to use a situation for personal gratification – and continuously present himself as a family orientated, spiritual person who works tirelessly to help others and is “Keeping it real”. The word ‘bollocks’ springs to mind.
Many people do seek the services of Kelvin Cruickshank to get closure on an extremely traumatic event. But for someone to use a position of trust for their own personal agenda is not only unethical and deceitful, but harmful. Whether he is in a relationship or not is irrelevant. The ramifications of messing around with the emotional wellbeing of fragile and/or vulnerable people could potentially be enormous. Reason dictates that it is a highly dangerous and unacceptable situation. It is something that I refuse to have on my conscience by keeping quiet.
I would like to think that he has learned something from this ordeal. However I have serious doubts. It appears that the only twisted fragments of his side of the story are coming though you – which clearly state “NO BLAME”. Must be rather uncomfortable to be continually used as a hand puppet. You leave me scratching my head. Do you really know what went on Kat?
This has nothing to do with bitterness...it has everything to do with the rights of the public. People have a right to know. If bitterness were a factor a lot more could and would have been said.
Some excellent and well stated observations there Susan.
Quote by Margaret: "Pity she didnt consider all the members who use that site for friendship & those that are having a get together soon-how are they meant to finalise things now?? When will she and her cronies be happy, what will it take?? "
Dont think you need to worry about this. There is such a thing as Facebook. I'm sure the people going are all sort and all in contact with each other.
Susan -are you the same Susan who made the post back in Feb? Considering how you feel did you make a complaint when you returned from the retreat you went to?If not why did you wait so long?If you did what was the outcome?Can you tell us how exactly he damaged your life or the lives of the ones who had a fling?If you are so concerned for the public's safety at the hands of this roving casanova why not take your story to the media?
Question for SillyBeliefs - Your post at no.88 has to be a mickey take?? Surely no rational person would believe any of that twaddle.
Margaret, regarding our post #88, of course no rational person believes that mediums can talk to the dead, that spirits are spying on us, that psychics can read the thoughts of others, or any of that other nonsense, or twaddle as you call it. But this twaddle is exactly what psychics, mediums and their followers believe. No believer goes to psychics and forks out good money to learn what they could get from the media or their neighbour for free. They want the private stuff, like is my partner cheating on me, where is the body buried, and did my dead granny really love me?
In reference to Margarets post 89 – my reply.
It seems that the woman didn't have the permission of her "friends"
If I remember rightly I said that over the last months we had talked about it and I knew how they felt. Let me interpret this for you … since the December reevelations on SM site (which led to a number of bannings) I had been told by my friends that they were happy for me to tell anyone what had happened as they were both very concerned for other women out there that may think they are alone in going through the same situations.
Why didn't she speak up at the time – why wait so long
I am quite aware there are all sorts of repercussions from this for a number of people and doing this goes totally against the grain for me. I had never intended to publicly declare this information and although Katrinas post almost made Kelvin out to be a saint – I could have just rolled my eyes and moved on.
It was this part of the post that encouraged me to do it. Unfortunately other people do feel they have been let down because they hoped for more when he was single and now they are lashing out but if they honestly ever cared about him as they used to say they did then they would be happy he has found the person he is meant to be with. My post on SM should definitely have cleared any misunderstanding that this was the case with most women.
Why aren't the women directly effected speaking out?
Well in actual fact one of them did in late December on the SM forum only to be banned (along with a number of her supporters) and the site closed for maintenance. And there are a number of other internet forums/blogs out there – what makes you think they aree not speaking out in their own way.
I'd appreciate it if someone would point to the code of conduct book that mediums are meant to follow with regards to how they should conduct their private lives.
I think you will find it is called the book of morals.
I believe it is wrong that many people think that because someone is in the spotlight it gives them the automatic right to know everything about that persons private life and to pass judgement as they see fit.
I merely refer you to the Silly Beliefs Team post 84. I can't say much more than that.
Pity she didn't consider all the members who use that site for friendship and those that are having a get together soon - how are they meant to finalise things now?
Anonymous is quite right – these people are friends and have contact in other ways beside SM. A lot of them have been in contact with me and although they do miss the SM chatting they are very supportive of what I have done. They are intelligent people so I am sure they will sort something out for the future.
By Susan, 21 Mar, 2010
COMMENT:
Susan: (Kat)…“You say with all conviction that all of this is coming out of bitterness...where’s your proof of such a strong statement?”
Comment:
Susan: “It is absolutely right for those of us with a moral conscience to expose people for what/who they are, particularly when they are not what/who they pretend to be regardless of who they are - and especially when they have the capacity to affect many people”
Comment:
Susan:“…Absolutely people go on his retreats etc, willingly. But do you think people would participate in such a retreat if they knew the ‘host’ had a personal agenda?
Comment:
The norm is that all professional services must abide by “codes of conduct” and “ethical guidelines”, particularly as ways to ensure a correct and responsible conduct of practice - this includes appropriate professional/client relationships…
FB:
Totally agree with Margarets post!!! Susan you think there is something in it for me to defend Kelvin, or I have been brainwashed, got that totally wrong! I hate the way people in the publics eye have their private lives talked about so freely, just cos they are in the public eye, and it is not always by choice, I like Margaret don;t by magazines that gossip about others, and I don;t support this in sites either. I have no idea what went on fully and I don;t care about it, what is wrong is the low blow public attacking. If you want to get back at someone, doing it in the public eye is a new trend and a sick one. I hated the way people treated Michael Jackson too. I will voice out for people I have respect for, people may have been hurt but it takes two to tango and if the tango goes wrong then why all the blame on one person, it always takes two. I am not his voice, I have nothing to do with him, I speak out because it is wrong to treat someone like this just cos they sit in the public
eye and you want to get back at them. Grow up. Lots of people hurt out there and they don;t stoop this low. I am over it all, it is old news, and the only reason for continous posts is I react too quickly when people are treated this way cos I hate seeing it. He may also be in the wrong, but leave it all out of the public eye like other people do. Over and out on this.
Hi de hey Silly Beliefs team,
As the originator of the now infamous "Tiger" thread on the late and, almost, lamented SM forum I must admit I find it funny that some people are claiming that the threads purpose was merely to discuss the Tiger Woods situation. If people wanted to use it for that purpose that was their choice. I however was attempting to find out a little more about something a little closer to the SM programme than what people though of the infidelities of the World's top Golfer. I was specifically trying to find out who knew what details and their particular views on the allegations. I was also interested in finding out if anyone had anything more than unsubstantiated rumours on the topic.
Margaret: “ Considering how you feel did you make a complaint when you returned from the retreat you went to? If not why did you wait so long ?If you did what was the outcome? Can you tell us how exactly he damaged your life or the lives of the ones who had a fling?...You are right when you say "living with someone & having a baby together is serious". But howcome all the outrage at how "evil" he is only came to light when he announced his new relationship & baby news??”
Margaret, you accuse us of speaking out about things that ‘should be private’ and now you want more information? As I stated earlier, if bitterness were the motive there is a hell of a lot more that could be said. You have failed to explore another possibility – maybe these things ‘came to light’ because some happened WHEN he had a girlfriend and baby on the way. Throws a new light on the glossy mag stories doesn’t it? I’m not here to change your mind. You can believe what you want. But if he ever blows in your ear and tells you how special you are you can refer back to these posts and save yourself a lot of grief, cause you’d be about as special to him as all the rest of the women he’s told the same line to.
Refer to my earlier post – why get yourself so passionately involved in defending him when you don’t know the story? Think outside the square!
I’m not here to feed voyeuristic traits of readers, just to encourage them to question what is said and portrayed.
Kat: “I have nothing to do with him”
Really? I find that hard to believe. So do you know either sides of the story? Or are you presuming on both sides?
Kat: “will voice out for people I have respect for, people may have been hurt but it takes two to tango and if the tango goes wrong then why all the blame on one person, it always takes two”
So do you know the other person that was tango-ing and her story? Obviously not. Some of the points trying to be made is that he was focused on using their vulnerability. If you knew their side of the story, do you think you would have the same disrespectful attitude? Do you believe that he should deserve respect and not them?
Margaret – I think the women have more respect for themselves than to go running to the media don’t you think? Why do you think they would do that? Do you honestly think they are after fame and money? What a sad attitude.
Panda -I appreciate you taking the time to answer some of my questions.I'm not aware of what's being talked about on other forums regarding this issue.Up until last week I had no idea about any of this business.Another poster from Sm contacted me privately asking about the Tiger thread & what had gone on.Like her, I didnt know anything about what had gone in that thread & as far as we both knew it was just about Tiger -nothing else.But I see from Gos's comments he started that thread to stir it up.
Quote Anonymous: Margaret – I think the women have more respect for themselves than to go running to the media don't you think? Why do you think they would do that? Do you honestly think they are after fame and money? What a sad attitude.
Going to the media does not equal financial gain -as far as I know the likes of Campbell Live & Closeup dont pay for interviews.I feel if they were geniune in wanting to "warn" other women then going out in the open would be they way to do it -not everyone has the internet and in reality there were only a handful of "fans" on the SM site.If they did go to something like Campbell Live etc, then their identity would be protected if thats what they wanted,as that show has done in the past with matters of a sensitive nature.
Last comment ever on all of this is IT IS ALL SO ONESIDED!!! You lot are all against him no matter what, and as for the person/people involved in the accusations, are they being fully honest, what were there full intentions going on the retreats etc? Some many retreats.!! If someone has expectations from someone and they are not returned then they seem to be blacklisted as bad and evil. Alot of women who met him look to him as a hopeful future partner, he is good looking, and he is a caring sensitive guy, and women love that. You say he uses vulnerabilities of people, well that can go both ways, people can use their vulnerablities to get attention in some cases. So it does not always work one way. The gift he has brings people to him who are grieving, who are missing people who they can no longer contact, he is there hope, he shows he cares, not just cos he has to but because he really does care, he knows what grief feels like, he has empathy, what if he didn;t care, he was a hard nosed person who just shrugged off anyone who came to him after the shows etc, would that make it seem he was more geniune. Nope you would critise him for that too. I am not his voice, and like I said I have nothing to do with him, I respect him, I am happily married and have no interest in him so maybe that makes a difference, I speak out for him because I believe women become fixated on him and want so much more from him than he is wanting to give, he may get caught up in peoples emotions and being human trip over every now and then, but he is not the only human being that is out there that does, I don;t think of him as a saint, he is human, I don;t have rose tinted glasses, I just choose to see people as they really are, everyone has a good and bad side, we just like to concentrate and magnify peoples bad sides in society. I am human I react too much, write too much with not much said in it lol, but so what, I speak out how I see things. I am appalled at how many people back up what someone is saying without fully having any idea of the real experience they have had, just the version the person chooses to have after the bitterness sets in. No one other than those involved were there so who has any right to back them up and speak against someone. This is straight out pack bullying, you all should feel ashamed of yourselves. You wouldn;t do it to his face, so what gives you the right to do it on here!!! As for those who were involved be TOTALLY honest about it all, are you so innocent, are you really the victims in all of this? Be totally 100% honest! You owe it to all the people on here you have taken into your web. You say it is good for women to speak out and I totally agree it is, but only if you are really a victim. Not just cos you want to get back at someone for not giving you what you wanted. For your own well being it is time to be honest to yourselves and to let it go. Raising white flag! I surrender completly, Over and out!
Whenever I've been confronted with unprofessional behaviour, I've dealt with it by complaining about it direct to the source or to the approiate authority if it was warranted.I've tried to deal with things out in the open and in a up front manner.
Well as I said, after the Vanuatu trip I did email Kelvin and his PA to say that I wasnt overly impressed with how Kelvin conducted himself at the "retreat". This did lead to an invitation to meet but for the whole of that meeting it was Kelvin talking about himself. Also I have had the brunt of Kelvin when I have told him something he did not like - as well as the anger it is just like hitting your head against a brick wall. Nothing he ever does is wrong in his eyes.
As mediumship is not a regulated industry I am at a loss of what the appropriate authority is. I would very much appreciate it if anyone could give me the contact details of an authority that I could talk to. Not just an association that psychics/mediums join to keep in touch but somewhere that may actually take this seriously and have the power to do something about it.
As just a mere "kiwi bloke" "playing around" of course there is nothing anyone can do - so be it. But he is using his mediumship/psychic abilities to get access to these women. It has been stated before - if he was a doctor, nurse, teacher, psycologist, coucellor, life coach .... etc he would be struck off the register. What can you really do with someone who works in an unregulated industry???
As a former visitor to the sensing murder forum, who knows of the women making these claims, this is my take on things.
What we have here is:
One vengeful jilted ex-girlfriend - if indeed she was ever that. How do we know a relationship actually took place? Perhaps it was wishful thinking on her part. I have been friends with a 'celebrity' sportsman before who was always facing situations where women said they were dating him. Anyway, even if this woman was kelvin's girlfriend, wasn't he single at the time, so what's the issue there?
Then we have one best friend of the afformentioned jilted ex-girlfriend, Panda, who is upset that her friend was hurt when she was jilted. I've been pissed off when my best mates have been hurt by guys - but would I plaster the guy's name all over the internet? No I would not. Another thing, if Panda was so upset with Kelvin's behavior on retreats, then why has she did she go to three different retreats with him? Sounds like a serial psychic stalker to me...perhaps she also propositioned him and was turned down? That would be a reason why she is being so vengeful would it not?
Thirdly, we have the "mystery woman" who was allegedly having the "affair" with Kelvin - an Australian woman who went on one of Kelvin's retreats. Months, if not a year, later she flew miles across Australia to see one of Kelvin's live shows, where she claims Kelvin "manipulated" her into leaving her husband and kids to be with him. Hmmmm. If that was the case wouldn't Kelvin be with her? Instead he is, according to New Idea anyway, happily shacked up with his girlfriend and new baby. Do you not think this could also be a case of yet another rejected woman seeking revenge?
I find it quite ironic that all these complaints about Kelvin's "behaviour" have only started now that he is hitched. If his behaviour was so shocking would not complaints have been made long ago??
Personally, I think it's disgraceful these women are making these silly allegations hiding behind their computer screens. I know all of their names and am tempted to post them here. But I won't. Because at the end of the day, they are sad, pathetic creatures with obvious mental issues who are loving the attention and sympathy they are getting.
Raphael - interesting 'take on things' you have there!
Lord knows where you get your information - talk about chinese whispers!
Personally, I think it is disgraceful when someone berates people based on half truths, makes them all out to be vengeful jilted lovers based on this info, then abuses them with name-calling.
"Because at the end of the day, they are sad, pathetic creatures with obvious mental issues who are loving the attention and sympathy they are getting."
I can't imagine what sort of person you are to say such a horrible thing - especially when you seem to have based your opinion on fiction!
As for "loving the attention and sympathy they are getting" nothing could be further from the truth. He has done immense damage to these people's lives (and their families) and I'm sure they wish they'd never met him.
'"silly allegations hiding behind their computer screens"....why would anyone open themselves up to so much additional hurt and angst just for vengence??? As Susan said in an earlier post: " Friendships are made in SM...some people care enough about the people they have met in there to provide information which may save them a lot of hurt down the track – regardless of people who try to discredit them and brand them as “bitter”."
Best you keep your ficticious 'take' to yourself.
Thank you Raphael for your post, and some truth finally coming out!! Hopefully all this nasty negative stuff can stop.
To say that some people here are missing the point is an understatement. I reiterate once again – it is not the fact of how many women he has been with or that he cheats on his girlfriends and partners – it is the fact that he is using his supposed mediumship/psychic abilities to get access to these women.
I will again make the point – if he was a doctor, nurse, teacher, psychologist,, councellor, life coach etc, he would be struck off the register never able to practice in that field again. However as he has very cleverly chosen an unregulated industry, it is very hard to lay a complaint against him. Because he is not in a regulated industry, as far as I am aware, in these instances, he has not broken the law so it is not a police matter.
I once again also direct you to post 84 on this site that very effectively points out when private and public life becomes crossed. I will quote one of the many relevant sections:
"A comment from Kat appears to be typical of how Kelvin is viewed by his fans: 'Kelvin is a very gifted psychic and a fully genuine guy… I have donne his workshops and his shows, and he is fully connected from his heart. Top Bloke!!'
Silly Beliefs reply - "Therefore the way Cruickshank treats people in private will be a good indicator of whether the image he presents to clients is real, or merely a fake character that he plays in order to make money"
Now for a little info about myself since it is apparently required. Yes I did go to three of Kelvins "spiritual retreats" and they were all for different reasons – most certainly not to "stalk" Kelvin. I went to Vanuatu because I thought it would be so amazing to spend time with someone as supposedly spiritual as Kelvin and that I could learn so much from him. I will also admit to being taken in by his charisma and falling for him for a time. At that time things didn't add up totally but when you are under his influence you tend to turn a blind eye. However this does not mean I am a woman scorned trying to get revenge. And once again I will say it – I was not impressed with how unprofessional Kelvin was at this retreat and did send an email to him and his manager on our return home. I was not the only one who felt he was unprofessional in his behaviour, comments along these lines have been made in the James Randi Forum confirming this.
The next "retreat" was Samoa. You can ask any of my friends (or at least those that will tell the truth) and they will tell you I was constantly saying I did not want to go because of his previous unprofessionalism. Skeptics – you may want to barf at this point – but basically I was following my gut instinct that I needed to go for some reason. I must admit I had a lovely holiday relaxing, swimming, reading my books and meeting some lovely people. I obviously observed more of Kelvin's behaviour here.
Then I went to Ayers Rock "meditation retreat". I did think it would be a great way to get to the Rock and be amongst its spiritual energy and being among like minded people. Surprisingly enough our interaction with Ayers Rock merely consisted of only a 2 hour visit and then it was back to the pool. This was an afterthought trip and not something that had previously been arranged. On this "meditation" retreat we had two meditations with Kelvin (I note in his latest trip to Fiji they had three – more than we had). I totally admit it has been through Kelvin that I have met some amazing people.
The timing of my original post was merely just that, timing – barf aagain skeptics if you must – but once again it was just following my gut instinct, absolutely nothing to do with fictional stories in magazines.
These types of allegations have been made elsewhere prior to any similar posts being made on the SM site. Once again I give you the link to the following site http://nzglen.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/sensing-murder-sensing-bullshit/ where Patricia talks about her experiences with Kelvin at the time of "finding himself" and while he was still married and with a young child. I copy a part of the post here:
"The Kelvin I new stayed at my house in his van at Waihi Beach a time apparently he found himself spiritually. I did not know nor did the several women he was sleeping with know he had a wife and child, when I found out I kicked his ass to the curb. This person has no integrity, my short stint of knowing Kelvin he belittled my son, told me I had fat legs and would find it hard finding men…Kelvin however, new I had just come out of an abusive relationshhip, I was a mess…Volunerable to preditors such as Kelvin."
I have no idea who this woman is and no link to her whatsoever but feel for her so very much. I will however quote from Kelvins book, page 117 "I parked my van up in the hills behind Waihi – its rugged, wild country up there, rough, craggy farmland that turns to thick dark bush on the hillside…….I just needed to to spend time with myself – a lifetime of running had to stop"
Since my original post a lot more information has been brought to my attention and a lot more experiences have been shared with me by other people. These people are still not ready to come forward and I can totally understand why. There are also a number of fairly obvious people that any journalist worth their salt would be tracking down about now and asking if they would like to comment. So I am sure more will be made public as time goes on.
I would however once again ask if anyone does have information regarding an appropriate authority that could look into this matter then I would be very grateful for those details.
Kat quote:
It is not just women who seem vulnerable as you can see in the following example. Where in it does Mr Cruickshank show he cares? In what way would this boy be seeking attention? He is fighting for his life. Where does Mr Cruickshank show empathy? Mr Cruickshank certainly provides no hope for this individual. He has caused more harm.
27 Feb 2010
Kat quote:
Mrs Kat, you quote that you have nothing to do with Mr Cruickshank? Why do you send Mr Cruickshank fishing mags then? Could this be fixation maybe?
Kelvin Cruickshank
"…. Katb thanks for the fishing mags … I’ll enjoy them when I stop wasting my time on skeptics."
To clear the fishing mags up before it gets into gossip central, I moved into the house I am in a year ago, on moving in I was getting a subscription of fishing mags the person who just left the house was recieving, this person left no forwarding address, I am not into fishing and knew Kelvin was, I gave him the first one I got when I saw him here in April/May last year when he was here for his show, and told him I would forward the rest as they came in on to him cos they were going to be put in the rubbish otherwise. Nothing exciting in that!! This is negative central and I am for my own health not reentering. These girls have an audience now to filter their anger and frustrations of not getting the desired results they wanted from Kelvin and you guys are all buying their story. At some point people need to be honest, more with themselves so they can move forward again in life.
I am walking away completly from all of this and want to be 100% honest, and hope other do too. I have nothing to do with Kelvin, I met him on a workshop a couple of years ago. I went to the workshop hoping he could help me to connect to my friend who has passed over when we were younger and I had a lot of guilt about her passing. I didn;t want a reading I wanted an everlasting connection with her, hence the help to connect and workshop. Before this day I was a person who has little trust in anyone or myself. I had lived most my life in fear and had bouts of depression. I knew I had a spiritual side which was shown to me at 6yrs but I spent my life running from it looking for answers anywhere but in me. For some reason that day at the workshop I was awakened again to my spritual side, and from that day my life changed. I am thankful to Kelvin for showing that side to me because now I know who I am. Sounds airy fairy but I have only ever spoken out for Kelvin because I appreciate what he does for people. I am not the only one who has had a positive experience with him, there are thousands who have had their life changed because of his gift and something about him. My intentions was only ever to give back to him what he has given me, but unfortanely it has worked against him and now has been a catylyst for people who have had a bad experience with him. I feel their experience has come from there expectations not being met. I had no expectations from him ever. I believe in Kelvin;s ability and I believe there is a geniune side of him that cannot lie. We all have different experiences in life and they are our own experiences no one elses, I should of kept my opinions to myself but I felt strongly about speking out for him when people spoke against him, cos in my life he has made a HUGE difference. Now I feel shit because in someways I am ruining his life. A pure example of good intentions being judged wrongly. I do not believe Kelvin is the only one at fault in these accusations made against him.
I totally agree with Rafael. I also have a knowledge of the going ons of the people involved in this.
I believe this animosity comes from a few women scorned who have been and continue to be, totally obsessed with Kelvin.
When will it end? Is seems Panda is finding forums to vent her anger all over the place. Maybe she should really consider the true reasons for this anger.
Go to the appropriate authorities????? For what???
Disappointment at not receiving enough attention from Kelvin would be more like it!.
Panda has obviously spent a great deal of money on every available retreat over a long period of time. Yet she states now that she wasn't satisfied from the first? If she had wanted to visit Ayers rock, she could have gone for a fraction of the cost on a private trip but no, Kelvin wouldn't have been there!.
'totally unhinged' are the words that come to mind!!!
Maybe if the true reasons for such animosity were revealed, these few women on a search and destroy mission would pull back!
Panda -I think you have misunderstood me.When I was talking about making complaints to the appropriate authority, I meant for the situations I have had to sort out.I didnt mean you, as you have rightly pointed out there isnt somewhere to turn to for situations that you have faced. It is sad to hear that your complaint directly to his office wasnt treated properly and by the sounds of it you werent offered any form of apology???
I first would like to say that I am the 'Anonymous-1' from previous posts. Not the above 'Anonymous-2'.
Rapheal. I would be more than happy if you reveal who I am, and at the same time you can come out from your wee computer screen and reveal who you are. Come on, I dare you to.
There are definitely recent posts that are not factual, someone getting their info mixed up, or something. I think you should maybe have refrained from posting if you weren't confident about what you supposedly know, as there are a few question marks in your post.
Kat - why do you post that its your last post then post again and repeating the same BS, I am really really getting sick of the likes of YOU saying that people are infatuated by Mr KC. What nonsense. To me personally, he is a bit on the "heavy" side for my liking, just one quality that happens to be physical, but many other qualities he has is just not appealing to me."Celebs" just don't do anything for me either honey. even tho i'm sure you were not directing these comments at me.
Why do you think these women aren't being honest? Have you talked to them have you? Obviously not.
People still do not get (and probably because they don't have all the truthful information), that the unprofessional behaviour should not be happening. Just because he is a "medium" and teacher in his paid work, doesn't mean that he should not be treated like any other "professional". I have read quite a few cases recently where "professionals" have been disciplined because of these types of actions. Maybe it is time for the "profession" of mediums and whatever else they like to call themselves to be made accountable to a board or whatever. In other professions he would have been "struck off". If others don't speak out, then who can? He at present is accountable to himself. Maybe this is why it is happening. There is no code of conduct. A law unto thyself.
At Silly Beliefs our primary gripe with Cruickshank (and his mates) is his claim that the spirits of dead people exist and that he can communicate with them. As skeptics we simply look for evidence of these paranormal claims, and all we find is evidence of cheating and evasion. In this regard we don't care whether Cruickshank is screwing his cute clients, cheating on his taxes, dying his hair blond or is a failed chef. His psychic claims are a scam and thus he is ripping off his clients.
However, skepticism aside, issues of ethics have also arisen around the promotion of his dodgy psychic career. One is whether the public has a right to learn of certain aspects of his private life. We contend that if his actions in private contradict with those he promotes in his public life, then he is merely acting a part to sell his services and those that might use his services have a right to know of his insincerity. The second, and more important one, is how he conducts his relationship between himself and his clients. It seems there have been several allegations of Cruickshank having sexual relationships with paying clients. It matters not if these relationships were consensual. As several have pointed out, it is simply inappropriate and unprofessional. There is no ethical dilemma, Cruickshank would have been wrong to have acted on his hormones. As has been noted, professionals such as doctors, psychologists, teachers, lawyers, counsellors etc are guided by codes of conduct and are censured and penalised for contravening them. The problem with Cruickshank, and mediums in general, is that he is not a 'professional' in a real sense. He is not a 'qualified' psychic medium, and has not undergone considerable training and specialised study in a recognised field. Labelling psychics as professionals is like saying both doctors and people who dress up as Santa Claus in department stores are both professionals. Psychics want to be seen as 'professionals' and certainly have clients, but then so do prostitutes. However there is no legal code of conduct for psychic mediums, no registration body that they must belong to, no qualification that they must possess and no licence is required to peddle their quackery. The fact is that everyone who consults a psychic gets screwed, the difference here is that for some this might be physically as well as financially, intellectually and emotionally.
The first challenge, private life verses public life, will be damaging to Cruickshank, in that potential clients will cancel appointments after realising that his caring, sensitive persona is just a sham to make money. The second challenge of inappropriate conduct towards clients could be damaging to trusting clients who, as has been pointed out, are often at a low point in their lives and struggling emotionally. While the sexual encounter might be fun, the enviable breakup will not be, and it is difficult to see how this encounter will enhance their emotional wellbeing.
We also noticed that post #109 mentioned a strange comment from Cruickshank: 'thanks for the fishing mags … I'll enjoy them when I stop wasting my time on skeptics.'
In what way is Cruickshank wasting his time on skeptics? Like all psychics and mediums he avoids skeptics like the proverbial plague. He ignores our challenges to test his claims, refuses to answer our queries, criticises us in the media, insults us if we attend his shows and generally runs into the shadows when he senses our presence. He's admitted that he's dyslexic and doesn't like to read, so obviously he's not 'wasting his time' by reading what the likes of Skeptical Inquirer has to say on psychics. The only thing I can think of — if this claim isn't just another lie to his minions — is that instead of relaxing while reading about killing fish, or at least looking at the pictures, he is wasting his time worrying about how skeptics have exposed his scam and how he might hide all this from his public.
I am astounded by some peoples comments. I wonder if Kelvin Cruickshank is happy to have this Kat person speaking on his behalf? She seems to have quite an obsession herself by the sounds of it with the man, or certainly seems to be quite worked up by the whole thing. I hope her beliefs don't crumble once she realises the truth, and will take her one sided judgements a little less seriously . I hope she doesn't need to believe in him to believe in herself, as it seems she is more defending herself and her own beliefs when it comes down to it, perhaps it is better to believe the nice fluffy things rather than to realise that life and people are more complex than that? And it doesn't reflect on her that she has had the wool pulled over her eyes a little if that is the case, or to find out that some people are not as perfect as she wanted to think.
"Now I feel shit because in someways I am ruining his life. A pure example of good intentions being judged wrongly. I do not believe Kelvin is the only one at fault in these accusations made against him."
Kat -You have nothing to be sorry for.You didnt start this mess, so you have no need to feel bad for defending someone who has had a positive impact on your life.
whoever wrote the above [#116],,,is not by me..........someone has just told me about this site and post.........unbeliveable.
Note: Since we have received two posts (#116 & 118) both tagged with the same first name but from different sources, suggesting they are different posters, we have relabelled them 'Anonymous-3' and 'Anonymous-4' to avoid confusion.
Anon-3 @116 -Leave Kat alone!She is entitled to her own opinions.She's not speaking on behalf of Kelvin, she is just sharing her opinion.Why should her view of him alter just because others have had negative experiences. Dont you think that's a bit High School -ohhhh Betty hates Mary so I'll hate Mary too!!!!
re post #116
They sent a post (since changed by SB to Anonymous-3) using a very recognisable name for anyone who read the Sensing Murder site, and now it appears from post #118 that poster #116 has lied about the name.
#116 started their post saying "I am astounded by some peoples comments..."
To the Silly Beliefs team, this has gone on long enough? You are acting as a conduit for what appears to be some sad and dishonest people. How can you continue to post material when you cannot verify who is contributing, and you cannot verify the contents of each post?
Your continuation of this thread seems to be encouraging the assassination of not just one persons character?
Your original article sensed a scam? and now it seems you are happy to allow this at times anonymous user contributed crap to continue and to allow some to continue to inflict pain on others without just cause? Scamming truth at the expense of dignity and honesty? Where are your ethics?
Bad taste Silly Beliefs team, get back to your original cause? and no, I have nothing to do with Kelvin Cruickshank or have any contact
with other posters.
BJ, you raise some interesting points. I think many posters on this topic forget that we are a skeptic website that is highly critical of all the Sensing Murder psychics and their promoters. We, and no doubt many others that visit our site, already have a negative view of Kelvin Cruickshank. These revelations haven't shocked us or caused us to rethink how he promotes himself. His character was already in the gutter. To paraphrase that Mafia? saying, 'Cruickshank is dead to us'. Consequently those critical of Cruickshank won't harm his business by their posts, since we already refuse to give him our support and recommend others do likewise. And paradoxically it is often those supportive of him that keep this 'scandal' in the limelight, keeping it alive so that those unaware of it might eventually get to hear of it. A bit like the Vatican not knowing when to shut up about 'The Da Vinci Code' and unintentionally giving it unprecedented free publicity.
Also we do not, and can not, verify the source of emails or their contents, eg, we can't verify that you really are called 'BJ' and have nothing to do with Cruickshank or the other posters. We simply have to take your word for it. It is child's play to send email under a bogus name, and numerous people today post under yahoo, gmail etc accounts, such as yourself, that have no connection with an ISP. Every comment we receive is effectively anonymous, even if it is signed 'Joe Bloggs', or as in your case, BJ. We have no idea who any of these people really are, and nor do we want to snoop around and find out. One advantage of the internet is its anonymity, allowing people to make honest comments that they might be reluctant to voice in public.
You have — anonymously — described some of the posters as sad and dishonest, and you evidently reach this conclusion while claiming to have no knowledge of the events. Why do you feel you have the right to express this unsupported opinion while suggesting we delete the opinions of others? And who exactly do you believe are the 'sad and dishonest people', those supporting Cruickshank or those criticising him? If you can answer this question and wish to post that answer then you are no different than all the other posters. You will be posting another opinion that will either support or harm Cruickshank's public persona.
Regarding character assassination, when people claimed that Tiger Woods had cheated on his wife with 19 or more women, it was certainly in direct contrast with his carefully orchestrated public image of the loving and loyal husband, but it was not character assassination because it was all true. Much to the disappointment of his supporters. As for Cruickshank, our reading of the comments would suggest that even those supportive of him appear to begrudgingly acknowledge that he has had sexual relationships with several clients, but their argument is that this should remain personal and private. None of the posters, for or against, mention comments from Cruickshank, on any of these forums, that assert, 'I utterly deny all the allegations made by these women'. 'These events never happened.' 'I have never acted in anything but a professional manner with my clients' (remembering that there is only one 'profession' where 'professionals' have sex with their clients). We don't care whether the women threw themselves at him or he seduced them, whether the relationship went well or ended badly, either way we believe he fell prey to his hormones and entered into inappropriate sexual relationships with some of his clients. Thus this debate around Cruickshank is about ethics. If you accept that these relationships did occur, do you think they were proper and private and typical of professional/client relationships? If you believe these relationships never happened, do you therefore believe all allegations should be ignored and suppressed? As a lesson in where this view can lead us, look how many decades passed while well-meaning people kept insisting that a few sad and dishonest people shouldn't be allowed assassinate the good character of Catholic priests.
Cruickshank has done nothing illegal, and if he feels he has done nothing unethical either, then he has nothing to hide, nothing to suppress, nothing to keep from the women's magazines. I can keep the intimate details of my sex life private while still being perfectly happy to acknowledge that I have a sex life, and in broad terms with whom. Can Cruickshank do the same? Also there is a major difference between embarrassing behaviour and shameful behaviour. I would be embarrassed if intimate details of my sex life were published, but I would not be ashamed, since it is perfectly normal, natural and legal. But if I were cheating on my wife or if I were a doctor having sex with my patients then revelations of this would be shameful to me, and I would do my utmost to keep this activity secret and hidden from the public, and my wife. Cruickshank isn't married or a doctor, but does he still feel that he would need to keep relationships with clients secret? If the secret got out, would he be embarrassed or ashamed? Think of Tiger Woods, when the public discovered that he had been secretly having sex with numerous women, was he simply embarrassed or deeply ashamed?
If Cruickshank has had sexual relationships with his clients and refuses to acknowledge this, not the details of with who and when, but simply that the relationships happened, then he knows or suspects that making these relationships public will harm his reputation. If his supporters know that these relationships with clients occurred and want to keep them suppressed, they likewise know or suspect that they will be damaging to his public persona. And they do appear to be arguing that these client relationships are private, not that they never happened. If both Cruickshank and his supporters feel that there was nothing wrong in his having sexual relationships with clients, then what reasons can they give to want to hide the fact that these relationships, minus the details, happened? Remember that no one is demanding to know the names of the women involved, we don't want to know what the sex was like and whether there are any pictures. The debate is over whether it is ethical for someone that is consulted and looked upon as a 'professional', whether they really are or not, to enter into sexual relationships with his clients, many of whom Cruickshank often claims he is trying to 'help'.
Our broad argument is that if attitudes and behaviour in someone's private life conflict with the cultivated public image they project in order to sell themselves or a product, their the public has a right to know of this hypocrisy and act accordingly. It doesn't just revolve around sex. For example, Cruickshank misleads his clients and supporters with his comment on the fishing magazines: 'I'll enjoy them when I stop wasting my time on skeptics'. He makes this comment solely to create the false image of a crusading psychic striving to convince the skeptics, knowing that his clients want a person confident in their beliefs that is willing to confront the disbelievers. Yet away from the public gaze and the safety of his workshops, he avoids skeptics like I avoid sharks. Big or small, the public when they are paying for a service or product have a right to know when the promoter's public claims don't match their private actions. It is the hiding of these differences between public claims and private reality that permit scams to survive.
All that said, we agree that pretty much all that is going to be said about Cruickshank and his alleged inappropriate behaviour with clients has probably be said. The allegations have been made and his supporters have responded, and now the debate is turning into a tennis rally. Critics of Cruickshank would be better served to approach the media and frequent forums for psychic believers, and supporters should just stop responding and hope the scandal dies a natural death. It is now up to the public to decide whether these relationships happened, and if they did, were they ethical? Having been exposed to arguments from both camps, the choice is now theirs whether to book a reading or a workshop with medium Kelvin Cruickshank, or whether to say they don't care either way as this psychic nonsense is all crap anyway.
Fantastic reponse SB (122). Superbly put.
I applaud the ladies for speaking their truth - I know it hasn't been easy, but they have acheived their goal in warning others of this predator.
I stumbled upon this website/thread when doing a spontaneous website search to see why the latest series of Sensing Murder had been so short. I must admit, I was a big fan on the show and especially Kelvin. He's very charismatic, isn't he? Recently I even booked to go to one of shows, as one of my best friends died in December, and I would have given ANYTHING to have a message — any message, anything — from my friend — but in the end I couldn't afford to go.
I'm not usually a forums person and I don't usually get involved with these types of things but I want to say it here: Even though I don't know the intimate details of what goes on on these retreats and the nature of the allegations, I think there is a genuine cause for concern in Mr Cruickshank's behaviour. I understand after reading all these comments that this is a website for skeptics of psychic mediums/Sensing Murder and I personally always encourage a healthy debate. But it is ridiculous that there is an argument over whether or not these allegations are true. In my wordly experience almost always — where there's smoke there is fire. You can debate forever over whether it's moral or not moral that Mr Cruickshank cheats on his girlfriend. Some of you say that it is none of our business, that people have a right to their private lives.
Does a pedophile have a right to their private life?
Basing my opinion on everything I have read (and I have done my research) I think it's possible that Mr Cruickshank might just be a predator. And a con man. And judging from his very own comments, almost certainly a narcissist. I'm almost mad at myself for being sucked in. Here's what I suggest. It's pointless debating this between yourselves any longer. Take action. If there are people who have been harmed by Mr Cruickshank and are genuinely concerned that he is a threat and/or dangerous, report it to police. You owe it to society!
There is definitely a story here. I know two excellent journalists. If anyone wants to tell their story I can put you in touch with either of them.
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