Comment by Nick, 19 Sep, 2011
Hiya John, good to see you've included chemtrails on your list of nonsense to not worry
When I saw that you'd posted this on your website, I felt inclined to have another look at Claire Swinney's website again. Lo and behold, she's making allegations that there are chemtrails in the Rugby World Cup 2011 Guide Photos. Link here. I think that it's pretty clear to anybody with a functional set of eyeballs that every single photo contains clouds. Plain, every day, regular, run-of-the mill clouds. Proof that these hardcore believers are just seeing what they want to see. Though in this case I suspect mental illness as well.
Also I must mention "Doctor Nick Begich" who seems to pop up as a common "expert" in the field of chemtrails. It's hard to find information on his credentials, and I can't find any links right now, but I have read here and there that his Ph.D came from a university of complementary medicine. Why people take this guy's word over the word over, oh, every atmospheric scientist is beyond me.
I'd like to draw your attention to the Contrail Science website. I've never seen so much information on the subject in one place that wasn't a dedicated woo-woo site.
Sadly, as with any conspiracy, the believers are always quite happy to shift the goal posts in order to keep their hobby alive.
Keep up the good work!
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 19 Sep, 2011
Thanks Nick. You're right about the Contrail Science website. It's excellent and we've included it in the links at the bottom of our article. Of course we're never going to change the minds of the conspiracy theorists, we can only influence those that are prepared to think critically.
Comment by Nik, 19 Dec, 2011
[You ask:] 'What evidence is there for chemtrails?' and [state that] 'I've seen more contrails in one hour in the US than I've seen in my entire life in NZ.'
John, I live in NZ and see them daily, you really shouldn't mislead people with false statements, when did you actually last look up from your "Science" manuals? you really should use your own eyes and mind and not let some politician do it for you.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 20 Nov, 2011
Regarding contrails Nik, I was simply stating a fact. When you say you 'live in NZ and see them daily', I assume you only live in one specific place and can't speak for the rest of the country. You probably don't even know where I live and whether I live under flight paths that might under the right conditions create contrails. I have spent much of the last few decades working around NZ and my experience is not of daily contrails where ever I might be. I've seen a few in Central Otago and elsewhere, but they certainly aren't blanketing the country. And this is where you confuse the issue. You start with chemtrails, then immediately switch to contrails. Contrails are real things, and can sometimes be seen where there are commercial flight paths, but chemtrails are evidently the deliberate spraying of the entire country so should be seen everywhere, even where there aren't any recognised flight paths. Why is it that chemtrails only seem to show up where we can expect commercial flight paths, and not over the entire country? And even if contrails are common where you live, what has that to do with the sinister chemtrails?
You appear to suggest that we should decide what is happening in the skies by simply looking up and applying common sense, and perhaps a pinch of paranoia. That was how they did it in the distant past, but if we reject science as you imply, society would be back in the dark ages before we knew it, believing in all manner of nonsense, such as gods in chariots, witches on broomsticks, and more recently, alien spacecraft and chemtrails. And I'm really quite surprised that you believe we have rejected chemtrails because of some politician. What credible politician or political party might this be? We've never heard a politician even mention chemtrails.
Comment by Mike, 23 Mar, 2012
Just a quick comment about the nature of chemtrails — not all chemical trails are chemtrails. You give the example of an agricultural aircraft spraying fertiliser or weed killer as a chemtrails we would be familiar with in NZ. However that is not what the chemtrails myth says it is about, and it is a little misleading. Chemtrails are supposed to be secret for starters.
Chemtrails believers regularly try to broaden the "definition" to include any chemical trail in the sky. This seems to be a desperate attempt to get someone/anyone to admit that chemtrails do exist. Having gained such admission they will proudly declaim "See — told you" or similar. Of course they won't then say that you admitted that agricultural spray "chemtrails" exist — they will use the "admission" to say that all chemtrails exist. They will do this with ag spray, rocket/space shuttle exhaust, fire-fighting and fuel dumps. Of course the "logic" equally applies to car exhausts, fly spray and even your own breath — even though those are mostly invisible!!
So broadening the definition of chemtrails to include known activities is not a helpful idea.
Comment by Anonymous, 09 Jan, 2013
It would be instructive for you to investigate the history of the CIA, and their use of the civilian population for large-scale experimentation. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 10 Jan, 2013
I find your suggestion rather empty. If you have good evidence that the CIA are covering up the chemtrail conspiracy, then why don't you present it? We all know the CIA has secrets, as does every intelligence agency worldwide, but that doesn't provide any reason for us to blindly connect them to chemtrails. By your logic it could as easily be Mossad or the Freemasons or the Vatican, any organisation that secretly tries to hide things from the public.
It's as specious an argument as saying the Mafia have killed innocent people, so therefore the Mafia probably killed Mother Teresa and Princess Diana, since it's too much of a coincidence that they both died in the same week.
It's too easy to think up conspiracy theories, and say the reason the general public know nothing of them is because secret organisations like the CIA are hiding the truth. And yet strangely you can easily discover their secrets? Don't you fear for your life, or at least our wellbeing, since you've now let us in on this dangerous secret?
But seriously, since you offer no evidence for your claim, we'll assume there is none.
Comment by Anonymous-2, 09 Feb, 2013
Chemtrails Are Not real, Or Seeing IS Not Believing
The reason Chemtrails is imaginary is quite simple.
The mass media and debunker web sites such as Silly Beliefs.com told you so. Or at least made a silly argument to convince the reader:
You are a nut for seeing and investigating what prominent scientists around the world are discovering; chemical toxins that dangerously exceeds normal in the air and soil.
The government has also reiterated over and over to "trust" their word without questioning despite evidence to the contrary. Countries around the world, through the United Nations, gathered to sign an agreement to ban geoengineering aerosol spraying, SRM and SAI programs.
The creators of this debunking would argue that realistic and obvious abundance of scientific data and observation concludes that the planet is being manipulated by aerosol spraying world wide with dangerous consequences, are conspiracy theorists.
Silly Beliefs.com espouses that no one can show proof that geoengineering is taking place because there would be many persons that would have to be involved in perpetrating this cover-up therefore exposing to the public at large. Never considering that our present administration as the previous one is the most secretive in the history of the USA.
Seeing is not believing. In spite of the fact that generations have witnessed clear blue skies without white haze (not until the last decade) spewing out of the back of jets, all witnesses are crazy and are seeing things. Pale skies have always existed. Streaks by the thousands that cover up the skies are imaginary.
In spite of the fact that commercial passenger air traffic has dropped dramatically since september 2001, has not decreased the amount of air traffic, especially in non airway traffic corridors, seeing is not believing.
Conclusion: According to a one sided augment that Silly presents, there is no need to present proof with data that is available in the scientific community. To dismiss in general terms and demand proof of an opposing opinion in a one sided augment that attacks peoples character, labeling them conspiracy nuts is not only Silly but outright a set-up of propaganda to hide scientific truth and mislead the general public.
There is tremendous amounts of scientific data available for those who are interested in scientific evaluation, not one-sided debunking rhetoric which is designed to distract from fact. Geoenineering is the sciencific terminology used to gather real data in order to determine for oneself what the "Pale Blue" and "White Haze" above our heads really mean.
Last But Not Least: This comment is in no way to convince Silly beliefs.com to abandon their position or disprove their point of view. It is simply stating that the information out there is scientific and should not be misconstrued by conspiratorial websites especially Silly beliefs.com, in not giving a fair argument using the scientific terms associated with this subject. The many links related to the opposite viewpoint should be given consideration. This can be accomplished by using search terms as "Geoengeering , Weather Modification Programs , Cloud Seeding, Stratospheric Aerosol Injection (SAI), Solar Radiation Management (SRM), Solar Radiation Management Governance Initiative (SRMGI) and many more related terms. These websites and discussion forms are hardly what any rational person would consider "Silly" or "Conspiracies". Maybe just "Silly" If "Seeing Is Not Believing"!
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 10 Feb, 2013
We agree completely with your opening statements:
'Chemtrails Are Not real, Or Seeing IS Not Believing
Indeed the reason is quite simple, and that is that people should not believe everything they see. The world and history is full of people seeing something they don't understand and jumping to the wrong conclusion.
The reason Chemtrails is imaginary is quite simple.'
We should be wise enough these days to realise that simply seeing something should not automatically lead to believing some nonsense. The world looks flat. It's not. The sun looks like it goes around the Earth. It doesn't. People think they've seen alien spaceships. They haven't. Others think they've seen angels, gods and demons or ghosts, fairies and witches. They haven't. And so on and so on...
You claim that prominent scientists around the world are investigating and discovering that we're all being sprayed with chemical toxins. This empty claim is no different to Creationists who insist that prominent scientists around the world are finally realising that evolution and the Big Bang and much of science is wrong. But no one in the real world is convinced.
It is true conspiracy speak when you insist that your 'government has also reiterated over and over to "trust" their word without questioning'. I think you'll find it difficult to provide proof that they don't allow citizens to question their policies.
You claim that 'the planet is being manipulated by aerosol spraying world wide with dangerous consequences', and yet I've never seen these chemtrails where I live. We do often have clear blue skies. Why are these chemtrails only ever seen under commercial flight paths? Do the people that your government are trying to control or kill all conveniently live under flight paths?
We don't say that no one can show proof that geoengineering is taking place, we're saying that no one has shown proof that it is. Big difference. Likewise we never said that 'Streaks by the thousands that cover up the skies are imaginary'. Why are you making up these false claims? We said that these streaks are jet contrails not toxic chemtrails. And of course 'generations have witnessed clear blue skies without white haze... spewing out of the back of jets', since for nearly all of history there were no jets.
How can you claim: 'Never considering that our present administration as the previous one is the most secretive in the history of the USA'? Do you not know what 'secretive' means? If earlier administrations were truly secretive, then you wouldn't know what they had kept from you. Likewise, if you know what your present administration is hiding from you, then it's not a secret, and they're not very successful at being secretive.
And perhaps where you live, 'commercial passenger air traffic has dropped dramatically since september 2001', but elsewhere people are still flying.
You claim that 'There is tremendous amounts of scientific data available for those who are interested in scientific evaluation, not one-sided debunking rhetoric which is designed to distract from fact'. Again this is no different to the silly claims that religious nutters make, or those believing in alien abductions. Just because a handful of people, some even with scientific qualifications, use scientific sounding phrases to invent and support their silly beliefs is no reason to take them seriously.
But your last final paragraph is my favourite and typical of all those that insist we are wrong in our views: 'Last But Not Least: This comment is in no way to convince Silly beliefs.com to abandon their position or disprove their point of view' And it certainly doesn't! No one ever thinks it's important to provide the evidence that we are mistaken. We are merely told that it's out there somewhere and we should go looking for it. Like pots of gold at the end of rainbows.
Comment by Mike, 11 Feb, 2013
I would be interested in seeing some of this "tremendous amounts of scientific data" that supposedly supports the existence of "chemtrails".
Because so far I have seen no such data at all. I have seen lots of tests of the makeup of dirt and sludge and the like which people say shows chemtrails exist, but which actually shows that there is aluminium and barium and yes even strontium in the Earth's crust. I have seen claims that "geoengineering" is happening "right over our heads" — but all the actual factual information about geoengineers is about reforerstation, carbon sequestration, "cool roofs", a solitary attempt at "iron fertilisation" off the west coast of Canada, and a previous much smaller effort at something similar by a German outfit. There are numerous studies showing that solar radiation management COULD BE USED to try to cool the planet if things got bad. But such studies are also invariably accompanied by disclaimers "but it would have unknown side effects and is best avoided if we can do so" or similar.
I would think that if aircraft were being used to "spray something" then there would be materials being loaded onto aircraft, or something in the fuel that could be found by analysis, documents about weight and balance, modifications to engines to enable them to burn a different fuel additive, and a whole raft of other evidence point to it. Heck even a sample of a chemtrail itself — it is possible to hire aircraft for atmospheric sampling — $50k was spent on that mockumentary "What in the world are they spraying", and more on its even sillier followup — why didn't they spend that money establishing irrefutable factual evidence if there is any??
But there is NOT ONE SINGLE PIECE OF VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE that "chemtrails" exist.
Just a whole lot of scaremongering and ignorance.
At least not so far — perhaps hay-nonny-mouse will be the first to provide it??
I'm not holding my breath... ;)
Oh and in response to this:
"In spite of the fact that commercial passenger air traffic has dropped dramatically since september 2001, has not decreased the amount of air traffic, especially in non airway traffic corridors, seeing is not believing."
This graphic may be of some use (Click for larger image) — there was a small dip after 2001, but it only lasted a couple of years. Another one in 2009 that lasted even less time.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 11 Feb, 2013
Thanks for that Mike, especially that graph on flight numbers, but of course conspiracy theorists won't let the facts get in the way of a scary fantasy. Like you I wonder why these people spend a fortune on producing their silly mockumentaries and books and nary a cent on producing real evidence. Perhaps like cold fusion and Bigfoot, you can't produce evidence for things that don't exist? But surely it can't be that simple?
Comment by Miles, 12 Feb, 2013
Just reading the chemtrails thread ....
Not a lot of people know that F1 cars are being used to spray the grubby little petrolheads who attend motor racing meetings. Here's a picture of it happening.
Hope this contributes something (even if it's only a laugh) to the discussion.
Comment by Anonymous-3, 16 Mar, 2013
Check out weathermodification.org — it's one of the companies involved in spraying so it's real. Not a silly belief but a fact.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 17 Mar, 2013
You confuse benign weather modification with evil conspiracies. We don't say that no company is spraying anything in the atmosphere, we say no powerful, covert forces are spraying death from above, forces intent on the likes of mind control, population control, creating devastating earthquakes or world domination.
The website you mention, belonging to the Weather Modification Association, notes that its purpose is to promote 'research, development and understanding of weather modification for beneficial uses'. It mentions that 'Planned (deliberate) weather modification is also commonly known cloud seeding, cloud modification, and atmospheric water management'. However cloud seeding has been known and used for decades, it is not what chemtrail proponents claim they are seeing. Jumping to the bogus conclusion that harmful chemtrails must exist since cloud seeding does, is like suggesting that because reindeer, toys and fat old men are real, then Santa Claus is also 'Not a silly belief but a fact'.
Comment by Mike, 17 Mar, 2013
The ignorance — it burns!!
Weather modification is cloud seeding, and has a significant number of differences to the purported chemtrails that should be obvious even to a believer —
— it is done with small aeroplanes, not jet airliners
— in or underneath clouds, not in clear skies
— at low altitudes not high in the sky
— the equipment for it that is fitted to aircraft is patently obvious — no such equipment is fitted to airliners that "spray us"
— and most damningly at all, when it does leave a trail the trail is short-lived — and what is the main thing that chemise will try and persuade you shows that something is a contrail?? They last a long time!!
Sadly this is just another example of a chemtrail believer parroting what they have read or heard somewhere, and not bothering to consult even the most basic logic fairy.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 18 Mar, 2013
Thanks for that Mike, excellent observations. The logic fairy obviously paid you a visit. Sadly this is what we see with acolytes of all silly beliefs, be it chemtrails, alien abductions, homeopathy, psychic mediums or gods, they refuse to think critically, preferring to take the lazy option and simply believe in whatever matches their fears.
Comment by Mike, 10 Apr, 2013
Looks like Ken Ring is getting into Chemtrails now too — see his comment at:
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 11 Apr, 2013
Thanks for the link Mike. I've noticed Ken criticising chemtrail claims before. Unfortunately for Ken, he's in the tricky position of inventing conspiracy theories to explain why the majority don't believe in his weather and earthquake claims (eg scientists are silenced by Christianity and governments), but here he is falling out with fellow conspiracy theorists because their weather claims conflict with his. They insist secret powers are using technology to cause droughts, floods, snow storms and earthquakes. Of course if this were true then his astrological prophecies would be worthless, based as they are on the position of the moon and planets on the zodiac and not devious human machinations.
It's revealing that Ken can use reason and evidence to debunk chemtrails, but struggles to see any problem with using astrology to predict the weather. He's like religious believers who can clearly see why thousands of other religions and gods are false, and yet can't recognise the very same flaws in their own religion.
And just like Ring, Clare Swinney, one of the head chemtrail proponents in NZ, has contacted us and tried to intimidate us, threatening us with legal action and of going to the media with claims of libel. Both Ring and Swinney fail to understand that it's not libel if you're telling the truth. But like Ring and his threats, Swinney's were merely designed to scare us into silence and remove our criticisms of their claims. To date we haven't heard from her lawyers (or Ring's), and she failed to tell us what media was going to publish her articles. Perhaps she didn't want us to request a right of reply.
Like Ring, these believers in chemtrails aren't going to happily accept any public criticism of their silly belief. It's great to see Ring and the chemtrail crowd arguing, when no doubt many chemtrail believers are probably Ring's clients. They probably thought that as a fellow conspiracy theorist he would support them, or at least wouldn't openly criticise them. [Insert evil laugh here]
Comment by Pete, 24 Apr, 2013
You Guy's, are a bunch of nutters that need brain adjustment.
Seriously, as a young boy growing up someplace on this planet I never saw anything remotely like the so-called chem-trails. I also noted that you, in a way, in some way, refer to (air) traffic density and the possibility that this will generate trails. So if we look at the Air traffic density in say, Burdujeni then we have to assume that you are wrong! The Air traffic density is extremely low but the chem trails are incredible. I am referring to Burdujeni-Sat. Look this up on Google Earth and you will see some serious chem trails, what are they doing there? Is there a conspiracy that tries to keep the truth from being known? I remember the good Doctor in NZ, Nick Smith?, is it? laughing away in parliament about the chem trails. This guy is going to wind up with a lot of egg on his face one day.
Whatever the sky looks like today, it is not supposed to look like this anyway!
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 25 Apr, 2013
Really Pete, you see invisible enemies in the sky intent on our destruction and yet you call us nutters? People like Nick Smith have every justification to laugh at your silly claims of impending doom.
You say that 'I also noted that you, in a way, in some way, refer to (air) traffic density and the possibility that this will generate trails'. We don't say that there is 'in some way' a vague 'possibility' that air traffic will generate trails, we say that this is a clearly observed fact.
You also seem to be a little confused as to what Google Earth does. It merely displays photographic images, it does not perform chemical analysis on what is photographed. You insisting that the observed 'trails' are chemtrails is as empty as me saying that any brown coloured houses on the ground must be made of chocolate. How do you know that the trails are not vapour trials or have some other natural, innocent explanation? You don't! You believe in chemtrails so you naively believe that anything that looks like one must be one. It's the same as people confusing sleep paralysis with alien abduction, mental illness with demonic possession and noises in the night as ghosts.
Like you I grew up without seeing 'the so-called chem-trails', and they still can't be seen where I live, so what does that mean? Am I or perhaps the local council part of the powerful group that decides who gets sprayed, and as such my locale is off-limits? So why are evil forces intent on attacking Burdujeni-Sat (and Christchurch, but not where I live)? For those that don't know (I didn't), it's in Romania. What have the folk in Burdujeni-Sat done to attract the wrath of the chemtrail planes? And if there truly are 'serious chemtrails' dripping down on the unfortunate residents of Burdujeni-Sat and wrecking havoc, then why aren't we seeing this on the nightly news? Why aren't we seeing two-headed babies or thousands dying from unexplained deaths or earthquakes or a zombie outbreak? If nothing out of the ordinary is happening in Burdujeni-Sat, then either your chemtrails are imaginary, or real but completely harmless.
You cryptically claim that 'Whatever the sky looks like today, it is not supposed to look like this anyway!' You speak as I imagine a medieval peasant would speak if he suddenly found himself in the 21st century: What are those strange, noisy things on the roads and in the skies? Horse carriages and birds are not supposed to look like that! Evil forces are at work. Flee!
I assumed you already thought there was, but you ask: 'Is there a conspiracy that tries to keep the truth from being known?' No, just simple ignorance and a refusal to face facts on the part of those creating scary chemtrail stories. As I've said, it's no different to those that believe in devious aliens, demons and ghosts, and just like those deluded folk, no one can produce evidence that your particular threat actually exists. There is no conspiracy hiding the truth, it's freely available to everyone, and here it is: there is no powerful, secret worldwide attempt to kill or enslave us all by the use of toxic chemicals sprayed from invisible aircraft.
So there you have it, you can rest easy tonight. No need to thank me.
Comment by Mike, 29 Apr, 2013
Hi John — Pete complains that Burdujeni-Sat has a low density of flights.
Well it may be low compared to some routes — but they still get plenty of flights directly overhead that are passing between other places. The attached shot (click for larger image) from flight Radar 24 shows the location of Burdujeni-Sat and the situation at 12:00 UTC yesterday — there are several flights even in that cropped shot that are going almost directly overhead. THY8 highlighted is a Turkish Airlines Airbus A340 flying from Washington DC to Istanbul, and is at approx. 37,000 feet.
Like most chemmie believers Pete has not bothered with any fact checking before he's regurgitated the sensationalist nonsense he is spouting.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 29 Apr, 2013
Thanks for the input Mike. I'm always amazed that on the rare occasion when devout believers in nonsense attempt to shock me with some piece of 'evidence' I usually find myself responding with: That's it? That's your evidence? After all the research you've supposedly done, that's the best you can come up with? You only have time to throw one killer argument at me and that's what you're going with? Really?
Comment by Phill, 29 Apr, 2013
Hi John — Just a quick point to Pete's view that he had never seen these miraculous trails when he was a boy. I do remember seeing them. As a wee lad some forty odd years ago watching a contrail of a jet from a school playground in Upper Hutt, even now it is a vivid memory. I guess I can understand why some people might want to believe that they represent some grand impossible government conspiracy. Of course back then as a six or seven year old my thought at the time was that this was some sort of rocket plane (it was the sixties after all and space rockets were all the rage) which lead me to the belief that passenger jets must fly at over a 1000 miles an hour. Later my Headmaster (yes back then he was a headmaster ) told me that they flew at a more realistic four or five hundred miles an hour. If you want to go further back, I seem to recall war time film of the great daytime raids by the American bombers and their multiple contrails across the sky. All of which is very spectacular, and very explainable by good old fashioned science that I remember learning at college but could not for the life of me recall now.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 30 Apr, 2013
Hi Phill. Yes, Pete's argument that since he didn't see trails in the sky as he was growing up must therefore mean there is something devious going on now is rather illogical. No doubt there is a myriad of things he now sees around him that he didn't see decades ago, such as cell phones and veiled Muslim women. But as you say, some people, eg you, did see contrails as they were growing up. The first contrails I ever saw was in the desert states of the USA 30 years ago, and the last one was a couple of years ago in Central Otago. Apparently certain conditions must be met, such as temperature, humidity, clear skies and jets flying at specific altitudes. It's depressing that some people are far too willing to shout 'mystery' and 'conspiracy' when encountering things they don't understand.
Comment by Mike, 10 May, 2013
A full range of indigenous chemtrail nuttiness is on public display again on one of NZ's major news websites:
'Chemtrails' over Nelson cause concern
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 10 May, 2013
Well there you go Mike, another nice city, like Christchurch before it, has somehow angered the reptilian aliens bent on our destruction and/or domination and have brought forward its demise, and couldn't care less if we see them doing it. Perhaps it was that nude beach and holiday park I've heard of? Or perhaps they realised that far too many in Nelson were starting to realise that chemtrails are a real threat, and they need to be silenced before they alert the rest of the country? It's a shame really, I liked Nelson. I must call my friends and tell them to flee (à la Ken Ring).
Comment by Anonymous-4, 10 May, 2013
If these Chemtrails are so dangerous wouldn't the pilots also be spraying themselves?
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 10 May, 2013
Perhaps they are Kamikaze or Islamist pilots, willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause?
Comment by Bob, 11 May, 2013
When I first read this I couldn't work out what it was about. I knew about vapour trails. Technically it is simple enough. Water vapour heats in jet engines then immediately freezes on contact with the cold air out the back. I don't see them where I am because jets don't fly in this area. Last year I was visiting my daughter in England. Planes flew backwards and forwards all day over her place with constant criss cross patterns in the sky which gradually dispersed. I wish the news media would do some preliminary investigation before rushing into print with wayout ignorant claims.
Comment by Paul, 20 May, 2013
John, I am a high school Physics teacher with a strong background in environmental studies. I have had an ongoing heated debate with some folks about the existence of chemtrails. In my search to educate the uneducated I came across your web page. When I referred them to your site, I was sent a reply with several articles or web postings that discredit your site. Claims that you are sponsored by the government along with your reluctance to acknowledge some of the other side's scientific evidence are just some of the reading that was sent my way. I am asking you, is there any clear cut way to shut these people up? I know what cloud seeding is and I know all about weather modification... I think you can see where I'm coming from. I like the message that you folks put out there. Science is often disregarded for the sake of popularity or some other purpose. Give me your thoughts when you get a chance and keep up the good work.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 21 May, 2013
Hi Paul, it's good to hear that you're doing your bit to discredit the nonsense that is chemtrails. You'll have no doubt discovered that this can be very frustrating, wondering if your opponents are even capable of rational thought. Personally I think debating with diehard believers (in anything, be it religion or alien abduction or whatever) is generally futile in the sense that they are highly unlikely to change their mind. It can be fun though and is necessary to discover what their arguments are. To this end we challenge fundamentalists and conspiracy theorists in letters to the editor and with our website, but friends ask why I bother if I don't expect success. I say that I only debate with diehards on the condition that the general public can also read and consider our debate. I generally refuse to debate with people in private. I know I'm not going to sway true believers, but it's the curious bystander that I want to reach, those that might be sitting on the fence and are still willing to listen to reason. Revealing, my friends say, why do you bother arguing, because as you've said, it's just nonsense because blah, blah, blah... But this shows that while I haven't turned a single true believer, my debate has influenced my friends' views, and they in turn go on to convince others. So when you debate these topics, try to ensure other interested parties are exposed to your arguments, and aim to convince them rather than the true diehard. Judge your success on whether you've given those listening food for thought rather than whether the conspiracy theorist has given ground.
I don't think there is any way to shut these people up, there will always be a core group that can't be convinced no matter what arguments and evidence is presented. Some still think the Earth is flat, and I know a woman who believes in gremlins. A religious nutter once accosted me on the street and I politely offered to show him that a claim he was making about the Bible was false, but he steadfastly refused to let me point out the relevant passage in the Bible he carried. You can't debate with people like this, it's like talking to the proverbial brick wall. All you can do is try and reach those that will listen to reason and are willing to change their views if shown a good argument. We can only hope to enlighten the majority, there will always be those mired in falsehoods. We need to put our efforts towards those willing to listen to reason. That doesn't mean we should ignore the conspiracy theorists outright, we need to let a curious public know that we view their claims as nonsense, but we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking that we will change their minds. Like those that used to believe in fairies, their beliefs will need to die with them. But until then, we need to challenge them. Far too many people, especially scientists, refuse to engage with these conspiracy theorists, thinking it a waste of time and beneath them. But their silence means that an interested public only hear the conspiracy theorist viewpoint, and since scientists aren't seen openly dismissing these views, many will falsely believe that there might be something to them.
As you say, 'Science is often disregarded... '. I'm usually astounded at how little true believers know about their pet belief and how science views it. They seem to have a psychological need to believe a certain claim, and once they believe, they embrace all manner of silly nonsense that supports their stance, and blindly reject what science and reason offer on the topic. In religion it's called blind faith, the demand that followers believe even if evidence and reason contradicts their belief. They can embrace a claim and cling to it on the flimsiest of evidence. They will be outspoken in its defence while displaying a woeful ignorance of the subject matter. I've debated with people who insist the moon landing was a hoax and yet had no idea how far away the moon even is, and those arguing for alien abductions who don't know the difference between stars and galaxies. Or those debating genetic engineering who aren't sure what DNA actually is and those supporting homeopathy who have no idea how their potions are made.
But I also think critical thinking is more important than scientific literacy in debating these topics (although having both is obviously preferable). Many flaws can be exposed in these conspiracy theories without even touching on science. For example, how can thousands of people from numerous countries be involved in these conspiracies but not one person ever sells their story to the media, and how can these plots be kept so secret from the media and you and me when the idiots in society seemingly have no problem in discovering all the hidden details? Unfortunately many people will be put off even with simple science explanations, but critical thinking alone can show how silly these conspiracy theories are.
I was intrigued by this comment of yours:
'When I referred them to your site, I was sent a reply with several articles or web postings that discredit your site. Claims that you are sponsored by the government along with your reluctance to acknowledge some of the other side's scientific evidence are just some of the reading that was sent my way.'
When you say that you were sent postings that discredit our site, that we are accused of being sponsored by the government and of suppressing evidence, do you mean our 'Silly Beliefs' site specifically, or is this just a generic accusation aimed at any site critical of chemtrails? No one has accused us directly of being a pawn of those creating chemtrails, of knowingly concocting lies to hide the truth. Of course I'm well aware that it's far easier to 'demolish' someone's argument if you do it deviously behind their back, without letting them challenge your wild claims. Do they know they're inventing outright lies, or are they again deluded, convincing themselves that unseen government interference must be the explanation for our stance? On the bright side, I always gain confidence in my views when those that disagree with me must tell lies behind my back in an attempt to discredit them.
And looking out now at clear blue skies with no chemtrails to be seen, I'm glad that even if chemtrails are real, we haven't angered the group that are causing them, or at least have none of the resources that they seek.
Comment by PaulR, 21 May, 2013
A couple of points :-
i) You report that chemtrail proponents say that if you see a "chemtrail", you should hide in your house to avoid its effects. What if you live, as I do, in the UK with its crappy weather. On the rare fine day, you can see plenty of contrails (or are they chemtrails?), but most days they are hidden by low-flying stratus — how do you know when to run indoors and hide? Should we all move to the Atacama desert?
ii) The US military do sometimes put chemicals in the exhaust stream of certain aircraft (e.g. F117 or B2) in order to suppress the contrail and improve stealth. I believe this was first used on the SR71 spy plane. These aircraft therefore do emit a "chemtrail", but it is invisible. Why doesn't the worldwide conspiracy use this method to hide what they are doing? Are they thick or something?
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 21 May, 2013
In answer to your questions,
i) If you can't see the chemtrails due to crappy weather, then yes, to be safe you would need to stay indoors. But as we pointed out, contrary to what some chemtrail proponents suggest, hiding in your house wouldn't be effective since they are not sealed. If the air can get in, so too can toxic chemicals. You could move to the Atacama Desert, although having been there, it is a little too warm for my taste. Of course the chemtrail planes can still fly over and your house would be just as ineffective there as in the UK.
You could, rather than emigrating, take the advice of Kay, a believer who has had experience with chemtrails: 'For all of you under Chem trail attack, change to a lavender or lemon grass essential oil soap.'
ii) I didn't know that about those stealth aircraft additives. Of course it's not a 'real' chemtrail since its purpose is not to spray those below as part of some shadowy plot. And if we want to take the opposite tack, even contrails contain chemicals, eg water vapour. Regarding why our shadowy group don't use this stealth method to hide what they are doing, you ask: 'Are they thick or something?' If they actually existed, you'd have to answer, yes they are. Since they don't exist, then we must ask this question of those that push this chemtrail nonsense: 'Are they thick or something?' Again, yes they are.
Comment by Mike, 21 May, 2013
Hi John — technology to hide contrails was trialed by the US military, but as far as I know there is no evidence it is actually used — I would be interested in learning otherwise. The USAF trialed injecting/spraying highly corrosive acid into the exhaust stream to suppress the formation of ice crystals. There is some information about it available at http://contrailscience.com/contrail-avoidance-and-mitigation-techniques/ that might be of interest to your readers. I do not know the detailed results of the trial, it seems to me a much better way to avoid contrails is simply to fly higher or lower, and perhaps the US military was bright enough to figure that out!
And to anticipate your/their next question — why don't airlines fly higher or lower to avoid contrails — they don't care. Contrails are not a safety or economic or (yet) an environmental issue, so they are of no concern to flight planners. Commercial airliners will generally fly as high as permitted by ATC — this actually saves fuel — jet aircraft burn considerably more fuel at low altitudes than at high.
Comment by Anonymous-5, 13 Jul, 2013
I HOPE, AT LEAST, YOU GET PAID WELL,
FOR SPREADING LIES ABOUT CHEMTRAILS.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 13 Jul, 2013
Evidence will sway us, but your refusal to provide any, resorting instead to childish insults, only increases our confidence that our stance is correct.
And of course, if we were to sink to your level, we could throw the same insult at you. Were you well paid for sending your email and spreading lies about chemtrails?
Comment by Anonymous-6, 07 Aug, 2013
you are really silly if you believe that you can mislead anyone who has not lost their mind... lol, this is a silly website.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 07 Aug, 2013
And you are really silly if you believe that your comment does anything more than cause us to laugh at your childish attempt to challenge our viewpoint. Do you really think that simply adding 'lol' to your comment defeats all our arguments?
Your refusal and probably your inability to intelligently defend your stance only increases our confidence that chemtrails are as imaginary as harp-playing angels on clouds.
Comment by Tony, 07 Aug, 2013
Wonder if any chemtrail believer could answer these simple questions?
- Where is the evidence of the fuel tankers and ground crews that get the chemicals to the planes?
- Where is the evidence of tanks on planes that store the chemicals?
- Where is the evidence of nozzles on the wings of the planes that the chemicals are sprayed from?
Sorry . . . I forgot that believers don't require or provide actual evidence.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 08 Aug, 2013
I'm sure they'd like to show you the evidence Tony, but evidently the CIA , the MIB, the reptilian aliens, the GCSB or maybe even the Boy Scouts (they're not quite sure who) have managed — somehow — to destroy it or keep it hidden. In this regard chemtrail believers are a lot like religious believers. They claim to know a lot about something that they insist is mysterious and hidden. Believers just have to have blind faith. But how can you have knowledge of something — chemtrails or God — if you claim that someone — covert agencies or God — is very, very effective at hiding that evidence from everyone?
Religious believers see signs of angels on clouds, chemtrail believers see signs of toxins in clouds and religious chemtrail believers probably see angels wearing gasmasks on toxic clouds. They're merely seeing what their distorted worldview conjures up for them, just as in past centuries people saw witches on broomsticks.
Comment by Mike, 09 Aug, 2013
I have finally found a YT video that presents a theory for the purpose of chemtrails that does actually give some verifiable evidence in support of that theory!! I've always said I will be swayed by good evidence, and this video doesn't actually provide any evidence that chemtrails exist in the first place — but it does provide a supportable story about what they might be trying to achieve, and how successful they are being at that — I recommend it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5W6APS7D1o
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 10 Aug, 2013
I watched that short video Mike, and you're right, based on certain evidence it does offer a plausible reason as to what they might be up to, but I'm still a little skeptical. That said, if I see a gas mask for sale on Trade Me I might buy it.
Comment by Anonymous-7, 09 Sep, 2013
You'd think these clever aliens \ government agencies \ mysterious men in black limousines would have by now produced a selective herbicide in order to eradicate the chemtrail believers who've sussed 'em out!!
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 08 Sep, 2013
Yes, it is an embarrassing problem with their conspiracy theory, that such power, secrecy, resources, determination and utter ruthlessness exists to silence governments and scientists but they can't shut up some hillbilly who stubbles across their evil plan. They'll evidently kill pilots and academics to silence them, but won't go near some low IQ moron whose disappearance wouldn't even be noticed.
Comment by Anonymous-8, 09 Sep, 2013
Um — sorry Anonymous-7, herbicides won't do that job. They are designed to kill plants, not people. Just a picky detail but we are supposed to be on a site that cares about picky details.
Comment by Jamie, 10 Sep, 2013
Um — I beg to differ, Anonymous-8. I'd say your average chemtrail believer is a gormless vegetable. A selective herbicide would be perfect.
Comment by Anonymous-7, 16 Sep, 2013
Which is why I said it! (anonymous 7, I may be called anonymous 9 but my real name is Richard!)
Comment by Anonymous-9, 20 Oct, 2013
you are an idiot — or a group of idiots — paid for by the system to disinform and confuse — but those of us who are idiots know all about you. Why don't you wake up — no LOOK UP dick
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 20 Oct, 2013
You accuse us of being idiots, but then freely admit that you and those who think like you are also idiots. Typical of deluded conspiracy theorists, you seem to be very confused and struggling to understand your own thoughts.
You tell us to look up. Throughout history ignorant people have looked up and have claimed to have seen gods throwing lightning bolts, angels strumming harps on clouds, witches on broomsticks, comets predicting doom and alien spaceships busy abducting hillbillies. Now you, a self-proclaimed idiot, have looked up and on seeing some contrails or strange clouds, have concluded that evil forces are out to get you. If this were true, aren't you worried that by publicly revealing on the Internet that you're on to their devious plot, that you can soon expect a knock on your door from threatening men in black? Don't you know you're being watched?
As I've said previously, childish insults from turkeys and a refusal and probably an inability to intelligently defend your stance only increases our confidence that chemtrails are as imaginary as the aforementioned angels and witches. I agree that someone needs to wake up, but you've given no reason to suggest it's us. Of course you could reply with your reasons and evidence, but I guess we both know that's not going to happen.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 28 Nov, 2013
I saw on the TV3 News last night that chemtrail proponents have now got a politician on their side. A reporter interviewing Colin Craig, leader of the Conservative Party, told us that Craig 'wouldn't rule out a conspiracy know as chemtrails'. In typical politician-speak Craig said that 'I take an undecided stand on anything where I don't have evidence for or against'. (He emphasised the word 'anything'.)
So Craig implies that he has no good evidence for or against chemtrails, which means that he is either too lazy to look for any or too stupid to understand the arguments for and against. Of course clearly Craig must have previously argued for the existence of chemtrails, rather than just saying he knows little about them, since it's not the sort of question you'd normally ask a politician. It would be like suddenly asking the Prime Minister what his stance is on Bigfoot. You assume intelligent people don't believe in silly things until they tell you otherwise. So it appears that Craig believes (off-camera at least) that there is good evidence for chemtrails, but is too afraid to boldly state this on TV. Since there is a chance that he might gain a seat in government next election, it's quite worrying the silly beliefs that people in power often hold, and who might then make poor decisions on our behalf based on these silly beliefs. We must remember that Craig, beyond being an apparent chemtrail proponent, is also a climate change denier, is for the smacking of children and against the likes of gay marriage, and is a fan of American Republican politician Sarah Palin. And of course he has been fooled by that most ubiquitous of silly beliefs, he is a committed god botherer. In an earlier interview Craig denied his political party was a Christian party, revealing that he hadn't been to church in decades. But he agreed that he was a Christian, and that he prays every day. It amazes me that a devout Christian can imply that their political party, their policies and the decisions they make have nothing to do with their belief in god. They need to be asked that if their religious beliefs don't influence and impact on everything they do then why don't they? Don't they know what it means to serve their god? I fail to see how a committed religious believer can seriously claim that they run a political party based on what they think is right, not on what their god wants.
And of course if Craig was really truthful when he claimed that 'I take an undecided stand on anything where I don't have evidence for or against', then he should at the very least be an agnostic rather than a Christian. All I can say is that someone who believes in gods and chemtrails is not someone I would vote for, since they clearly have trouble recognising reality, and reality is where I live.
Comment by Zafir, 30 Nov, 2013
Craig's statement 'I take an undecided stand on anything where I don't have evidence for or against', is rather a good statement I think. It's not that different to my mantra of "Led by evidence not ideology", or that other sound statement of "No informed opinion".
I know next to nothing about what causes the trails behind aircraft. The idea that some organisation is deliberately and secretly putting harmful chemicals into aeroplanes for the sole use of spraying over the masses seems very implausible. I haven't taken the time to look into this issue because it doesn't seem serious to me. If the chemtrail idea was real then there would have to be a trail of evidence and data that supported this hypotheses.
Colin's undecided stand on this issue is disingenuous. He appears to take this stance on issues where there is overwhelming evidence. It is telling how he responds to the direct question "Do you believe the world was created in seven days?", by replying "I don't know I wasn't there".
Colin Craig answers — NBR
I suspect that he is trying hard not to offend any potential voters whilst coming across as reasonable. You hit the nail on the head with — "And of course if Craig was really truthful when he claimed that 'I take an undecided stand on anything where I don't have evidence for or against', then he should at the very least be an agnostic rather than a Christian."
The ideal political system should be rational decision-making based on the best available evidence. Even though I like the concept of being undecided without evidence, it would be better applied to serious issues e.g. Are national standards having a positive impact on education? Does selling national assets place the country in a worse economic position? Then look at the available evidence. Then make the rational decision.
Outlandish claims like chemtrails or creation require some evidence before being taken seriously.
I will not be voting for his party.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 30 Nov, 2013
I agree Zafir that Craig's unwillingness to argue for or against something he knows nothing about would be the correct stance (one I take on all manner of topics), but only if it were a fact that he was truly ignorant of the chemtrail controversy. However, as you say, Craig is being disingenuous, I suspect he has an opinion on chemtrails but realises (quite sensibly) that he shouldn't express it on TV and possibly surprise some potential voters with his stance. Most people have never heard of chemtrails, and of those that have, most have immediately rejected the notion as implausible. Colin Craig was asked his position on chemtrails on his Conservative Party website, and his considered and official reply was that 'Our Party has no formal position on chemtrails. I am aware of the theory that chemicals are being released at high altitude for some nefarious purpose but don't know whether there is any truth in this or not'. How could you be aware that we might be being secretly poisoned and still not care to find out more? Any intelligent person would take a stance on this claim, and not simply ignore it as Craig claims he has. Thus the chemtrail question put to Craig wasn't some silly and irrelevant question to see how he would respond to something from left field, it was asked because chemtrails and Craig have a history.
Thanks for the link to the Colin Craig answers — NBR. I don't know how people can seriously use that silly reply, 'I don't know I wasn't there', without blushing and feeling utterly stupid. Imagine if you asked these same people: Do you think the Nazis lost the war, do you think the Romans built the Colosseum, do you think Santa actually put those toys in little Mary's stocking? Would Craig answer: 'I don't know I wasn't there'? Of course he wouldn't, so I don't understand why the religious think it works for silly god stuff. To me it shows how pathetically weak their arguments are, plus in Craig's evasive use of that reply, a devious reluctance to reveal his honest view in order to further his political ambitions. And politicians wonder why no one trusts them.
Further to his answer regarding whether the world was created in seven days (actually it was six days if we're talking about the Bible), Craig added, 'Seems there are lots of theories and opinions. I realise it is important to some people but I just don't know the answer'. As the NBR reporter noted, 'A clear 'no' was the only credible answer', and one we should expect from all our politicians. Craig was also asked his position on teaching evolution in NZ schools, and replied: 'Schools are meant to educate. This is a widely known and respected theory so should be taught'. While supporting its teaching, he doesn't sound that convinced that it's the one and only theory that should be taught, and this is verified when he's asked if creationism should be taught in schools as a valid alternative to evolution. He replies: 'This is the predominant world view (although in various forms). As above [ie evolution question] schools are meant to educate and so I think it should also be taught'. He's already admitted in his earlier answer that he doesn't know whether creationism (six day creation) is true or not, so why would he recommend teaching something that could be false? And yet Craig is affirming that not only is creationism 'the predominant world view', but that it is a 'valid alternative to evolution'. Clearly he believes that creationism is not just a silly belief held by billions, but a theory that has some validity. At the very least, he does believe that creationism might be true and evolution might be false, so both should be taught until we find out which is correct. What's next for Craig, arguing that astrology and classes to improve your psychic skills should be taught in schools too, since a lot of people believe in that nonsense as well? Perhaps Craig is truly ignorant in matters such as chemtrails and creationism, perhaps he's being honest when he maintains that I 'don't know whether there is any truth in this or not'. But do we really need another ignorant politician, one that is prepared to entertain all manner of nonsense simply because he can't be bothered to do a little critical research?
Comment by Zafir, 02 Dec, 2013
Well I mostly agree, but I'm not sure that there isn't more to it.
He might just be trying to hide his flaky beliefs and be too lazy to do a little research or he could be aware that there are thousands of voters that hold flaky beliefs and are too lazy to do a little research.
It looks to me that he is aligning himself to be the person to vote for if you fall into one of these categories:
- Creationist, or serious Christian
- Paranoid about government conspiracies, (chemtrails, twin towers, moon landing)
- Climate change denier
- Former act party voter
Together the above groups make up more than enough of the voting public to get him into parliament. In a democracy the lazy thinkers get to be represented as well.
He might be a wooly thinker but I suspect that he is smart enough to know not to offend any of his potential voters by dismissing their beliefs.
He might even had looked at George Bush, Sarah Palin, Tony Abbot and thought 'Yes, my time has come'. Thinking straight is not a prerequisite for politics.
Check out this interview with Sean Plunket:
So whether a fool, or a person trying to appeal to fools or even a mixture of both (this is perhaps more likely). I will be advising people not to vote for Colin.
It so happens that I'm doing some work for a pilot over the next couple of weeks. I might ask him to explain contrails, then ask him about chemtrails.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 02 Dec, 2013
Yes Zafir, all good points. Good ol' politics where politicians say what they think voters want to hear and pretend to be receptive to all manner of nonsense to gain their vote. It's quite true that even lazy thinkers need to feel that some party is representing their worldview, and Colin Craig could well be going for the nutty fringe crowd. I never really thought about it before, but if you believe in chemtrails or black helicopters and the New World Order, which NZ political party would you vote for, or would you just not vote? That's why various Christian parties have popped up over the years, to give committed Christians a political party better aligned with their outlandish beliefs.
I suspect, as do you, that he's probably a fool trying to appeal to fools. I see him as a fool because he is a religious nutter and a proponent of creationism, but how serious or knowledgeable he is regarding conspiracies such as chemtrails is not clear. The rest could all be an act, but it's potentially a dangerous act. Imagine if he was sincere and gained real political power, and went on to implement policies to satisfy the desires of his god-fearing and chemtrail believing supporters, he could really screw up the country. Since there is a chance that his party might get into parliament and gain some influence over policies, it's quite scary that we would have to trust someone who believes creationism should be taught in science classes and prays to god everyday for guidance.
Comment by Jamie, 03 Dec, 2013
Hi John. Yesterday my 6 year old daughter lost her first front tooth. Last night we placed the tooth in a cup next to her bed. This morning the tooth had gone. In it's place was a one dollar coin. I'd like to ask Colin Craig what he thinks happened to the tooth and how the coin got there. I'm pretty sure he wasn't in my house at all last night, so I have a feeling I know what his answer will be!
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 03 Dec, 2013
Hmmm... what happened to the tooth? Let me guess Jamie, might Colin Craig's answer be, 'I don't know I wasn't there'?
Comment by Jamie, 03 Dec, 2013
You read my mind John!! I think you've missed your calling.
Comment by Gerald, 03 Dec, 2013
I think what happened to the tooth is pretty obvious. It hasn't gone, it has somehow changed into a one dollar coin. This sort of thing happens all over the world all the time and people still spout nonsense about some mythical tooth fairy. Children's teeth once removed clearly undergo some form of transmutation overnight. I'm surprised scientists haven't thought of filming the teeth and observing the process, thus removing all doubt. Such research is the key.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 04 Dec, 2013
Yes, I think I see what you're proposing Gerald, that there is some profound truth to Craig's statement, that you have to be there to observe what happens. Otherwise you end up offering the likes of the tooth fairy as an explanation, when every rational person knows that the tooth fairies were all wiped out in the terrible fairy genocide of the 12th century. Like you I'm amazed that scientists can't be bothered to investigate the clear transmutation of teeth into currency during the hours of darkness. Perhaps it's like the climate change debate and what's hidden at Area 51, the world's scientists are being told what they can investigate and what explanations they can offer? I think there might be more going on here than we are aware of. Until the scientific research is performed, perhaps we should stop being so arrogant and follow Craig's lead and admit that we just don't know what's going on.
Comment by Jamie, 04 Dec, 2013
Hi John, the Colin Craig show just gets sillier and sillier:
Conservative Party leader - not sure of moon landings - hasn't looked into it - Audio
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 04 Dec, 2013
Thanks Jamie. Unbelievable! Colin Craig is either being brutally honest in that he truly knows nothing about the moon landings, and can't make an educated guess as to whether they likely happened, or he foolishly believes they were a hoax but isn't prepared to admit it, or he believes they happened but is being deceptively evasive to garner votes from the morons who are sucked into these silly conspiracy theories. No matter which is true, whether he is an uniformed apathetic moron, a deluded, still-in-the-closet conspiracy theorist or a lying politician pandering to the superstitious trailer park trash of society, he is the very last person that NZ wants to have in a position of power.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, voters should have to gain a qualification before they can vote for important matters, to demonstrate that they have a basic grasp of the matters they are voting on. Electing the people that run a country is too important to be left to morons that think some invisible old guy on a cloud created the world in six days, or that our government is poisoning us with chemtrails and the moon landings were a hoax, or even if they're not sure whether these things are true or not, are still too lazy to find out. Elections seem too often to be little more than a personality contest and lottery combined. We don't allow children to vote for a good reason, so adults that want to vote should have to prove that they still aren't thinking like children. Age alone clearly isn't a good indication that adults are informed and rational. The Colin Craigs of this world who haven't looked into how this world works, who aren't sure what is true and what isn't, and can't be bothered to look, shouldn't be allowed a say in important grown-up matters.
Comment by Anonymous-10, 04 Dec, 2013
The controversy about that fellow Craig made me remember the Apollo 8 mission, (hugely fraught with risks) the first ever to leave the Earth's orbit to go to the moon. And after seeing the much later (Nov 2012) conducted tour by Sunita Williams of the of the International Space Station demonstrating how liquid behaves in weightlessness, the mind boggles when you read that Frank Boreman had a bout of vomiting and diarrhoea in their very confined quarters on the way out. Talking of which, I can remember as much nauseous hearing the crew, reciting in turns from the Book of Genesis when, for the first time we were shown the Pale Blue Dot, our home, from the orbit of our Moon. But! Read how the experience affected Bill Anders, at the bottom of the attached. This wasn't published till much later. I'm a real fan of his for him taking the most obvious course as a result of what he saw resulting in him abandoning that evil church.
Also getting back to Colin Craig. Remember Graham Caphill getting into politics, and his agenda to push the bible until it was discovered he was a shocking child molester and subsequently jailed. Also the insipid Graham Lee, the member for Coromandel for some time. All wanting (including John Banks) to foist the greatest lie on earth that it was created first, then the sun and all the rest of the universe a mere 6000 years ago on us all. Great to see so many people are waking up and speaking out about this nonsense.
Comment by Zafir, 15 Dec, 2013
Hi John. I submitted a direct question to Colin about two weeks ago asking his policy and stance on climate change. He as yet hasn't answered but I did find a previous answer on his ask Colin page.
Submitted the below to him today. Doubt that I'll get a reply.
How can you have the stance 'I take an undecided stand on anything where I don't have evidence for or against' when your stance on climate change is clearly poorly informed?
Long term temperature change is a function of long term energy imbalance i.e. higher temperature means less energy leaving the system than coming in.
Your answer to a climate change policy question showed a very poor grasp of the subject.
"1. Climate change happens for many reasons. Geological events (volcanoes) and astological [sic.] events (Sun flares) to name but 2 have a large influence. Fluctuation of the natural environment and temperature is normal.
The sun's output is relatively constant and volcanic activity puts aerosols into the atmosphere which has a cooling effect. Long term, which by the way is what climate is as opposed to weather, sun flares and volcanic activity do not have a large influence.
2. Man made carbon generation and other human activity does have an influence on temperature locally. Stand on an asphalt pavement in the middle summer and compare this to standing in an open field and you get the point.
3. However globally our influence on temperature is very very small. New Zealand's influence is infinitesimally small."
Greenhouse gases do not remain local, in fact they mix into the atmosphere very well. New Zealand's output per head of population is among the highest in the world. You seem to be saying that the albedo effect of an asphalt pavement is comparable carbon generation. I hope you are informed enough to realise that carbon is not generated by human activity but that it is being emitted into the atmosphere by various human activities.
I agree with you that the ETS is pointless. I doubt that you would agree with me that a targeted tax on fossil fuels would be a better option to encourage heavy carbon emitters to find alternatives.
So the real questions are:
• Do you distrust science?
• Do you use scientific studies to inform your policies and stances?
If you think that your answer is likely to bring negative media attention then you can email me directly.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 15 Dec, 2013
I would suspect that anyone who thinks that solar flares are 'astological events', that doesn't know that it's astronomical and not astrological, is clearly someone who doesn't understand science. Couple this with his praying to god every day and you have someone whose worldview is not based on what science might say.
Comment by Zafir, 15 Dec, 2013
Hi John. Summed up like that, the questions are rhetorical.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 15 Dec, 2013
Just when I thought Colin Craig couldn't get weirder, I spotted this question to him on his website:
'What are your views on the David Icke's Reptilian Hypothesis?
This is astounding. Unlike the moon landing which is common knowledge and even creationism and chemtrails which get unwarranted media coverage, with the topic of David Icke Craig doesn't sit on the fence and claim ignorance, he takes a stand and says he 'can't subscribe to the reptilian hypothesis'. But why is Craig even familiar with David Icke's Reptilian Hypothesis, and how is it that he knows enough about it that he can confidently claim that the evidence is clearly against the Queen being a shape-shifting reptilian alien? I suspect that if I asked 1,000 adults, all would have heard of the moon landings, and have an opinion on whether they happened, but it is equally likely that almost none would have even heard of David Icke. This is because Icke resides on the lunatic fringe, and only conspiracy theorists and some skeptics would have come across his nonsense.
As I understand it Icke's first premise is that there are very powerful persons/families who as a global elite try and manipulate world events to their own advantage. While I can't subscribe to the reptilian hypothesis, I think this first premise has validity'.
So why is it that Craig has not just heard of Icke, but is fully informed of the evidence for and against his reptilian hypothesis, so much so that he can take an informed stand on whether it is true or not? What does it say about an adult, let alone a politician, that can speak authoritatively on the views of certified loon David Icke, and support some of them, and yet knows so little about the moon landings that he can't say whether it is even likely that they happened or not?
Why does Craig profess ignorance on well known topics and then demonstrate unexpected knowledge on a fringe topic such as Icke? Why didn't he simply fudge his answer as before? Why his reluctance to criticise chemtrails, creationism and the moon landing hoax, but not Icke? Perhaps Craig's Christian beliefs stop him from believing in aliens, especially ones more advanced than us, since god isn't supposed to have created other intelligent species. The universe was made for us!
Comment by Matt, 05 Jan, 2014
Greeting John. Yesterday morning I was driving back from Phoenix, Az back home to Tucson and observing all the chemtrails, or more realistically, contrails. See, lately I have been noticing that I know too many people who believe in government conspiracies and I become slightly sad. So, as I'm watching the contrails, I'm trying to understand how anyone could actually believe that they are.... well.... all the things that the nut jobs say they are.
Going back a little further in time, circa 1983 when I was 10 years old, I distinctly remember contrails. It goes like this. Outside playing sports, which I detest, I would see a "jet plane" leaving clouds. Of course I didn't know the official name since I was 10, but I loved any type flying contraption....still do. Anyway, I learned that when I got the binoculars, I could look up at the jet and see if it was a 2 engine or 4 engine like the mighty 747. Well, I couldn't actually tell if it was a 747, but the binoculars allowed me to see if 2 or 4 clouds were coming from the wings. Try it, you'll see what I mean. This all took place in Bel Air, Md, roughly 40 miles north of Baltimore, Md where BWI airport resides. My Dad would take me to the air and space museum back in those days which is likely why I love planes. Matter of fact, I was there again 2 months ago, but anyway....My point is that contrails did exist then and it drives me mad when people say they didn't use to exist.
But, here is what is really bothering me. Some of my friends believe strongly in the existence of "chemtrails". They tout all the reasons that you touch on. I don't bother to say anything, I just listen. Keep in mind I have closer friends that don't believe. But now I'm making a mental list of all the people that I know that believe in chemtrails and all the other ridiculous government conspiracies. They all have similar traits, but I wish I could find that one identifying trait. As crazy as it sounds, I'm trying to understand how seemingly intelligent people can believe in such fanciful ideas. It doesn't make sense. I think I'm a magnet for these people.
So far I read the entirety of the chemtrail portion of your website, I will read more on the other topics later. But let me share a few more things.
In 1983, again, 10 yrs old, I wanted to find out if Santa really existed because in Elementary school there was significant discussion going on. I was in 3rd grade. So, here is what I did. I gave my list to my parents of everything I wanted.... They would decide what they would buy, and what Santa brought to me. I was not privy to how they conversed with Santa to figure out who would buy what. Then, secretly, I told Santa what I wanted. I explained to him very specifically. The Nylint Shell gasoline tanker truck. So, Christmas Eve night after my parents put the gifts under the tree and everyone was fast asleep, I snuck downstairs and looked for my Tanker Trucker. Guess what? It wasn't there. I know crazy huh. Man, I was pissed... so pissed that I started crying my eyes out and my mom came down and admitted there was, in fact, no such thing as Santa. So, even at 10, my little mind was thinking logically.... well, at least the best I knew how.
So, fast forwarding to my mid 20's. I grew up Catholic, not strict Catholic (Thank God:), and never questioned. Then one day, I did start questioning. After reading things in the bible no church would even come close to preaching, listening to religious radio, and simply watching and questioning the world around me, one day it hit me, there is no God. It took a couple years to actually, literally, stop believing. I remember clearly. In my best friends kitchen, talking about Noahs Ark.... and BAM, right there, no question, God is fake. I had been questioning, but to actually completely, without question, stop believing was one of the best feelings I've ever had. The more time that passes, my belief in not believing only strengthens. But, here is the odd part. My sister and husband, two extremely educated individuals, believe virtually anything the Catholic church says. I mean, I would say almost blind following. Maybe not blind, but really "skwinty eye faith". How can two people, educated and incredibly well traveled believe in such nonsense? I'm trying to figure that one also. My sister knows I don't believe. I told her years ago. Her comment was, "Look at the beautiful sunset, how could I not believe". I kid you not, that was her proof. Bless her heart though, she is a great sister. Smart, but her common sense is a bit lacking. I'm 40 now, working on my bachelor degree to become a nurse. I drove 18 wheelers for 11 years, no college before that, so I'm not very high on the educational ladder. Therefore, how can highly educated people believe, yet me, simple trucker, doesn't. And the big thing is, I did believe, without question for all those years. But I question everything.... and if I don't know the answer, I don't default to the assumption aliens must be involved.
AMWAY. Have you heard of that one? I imagine you have. I use to always be approached by those people. I knew something wasn't right but I was curious on how it worked. So, one time I got an "inspirational" tape from an AMWAY follower and listened to the tape. Bingo! I figured AMWAY out. Why is it so hard for people to figure things out? Question something, do a little research and there ya go, you'll have the answer.
I have to be careful sometimes to not feel like a genius. Haha.
Anyway, of course I have more stories like everyone does. But I'm really a bit sad that so many otherwise intelligent individuals believe in such whimsical ideas. I read the comment part of the chemtrails and feel bad for that teacher who has to continually try and convince people (students?) that chemtrails are only contrails. How sad.... and frustrating.
Well, I've rambled on enough. Thanks for putting up this site though. I'm sure I will pass it along to my normal friends. I won't bother to show it to any of the others. No way am I going to start a debate, one in which I'll never win.
Take care and keep up the good work.
PS: I really do hope the government is giving you a fat check. lol
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 06 Jan, 2014
Hi Matt. Thanks for your comments and stories of seeing the light. It's truly refreshing to be reminded that there are still clear minded people out there, of late I only seem to have been encountering the wackos.
Unlike the likes of Arizona, you only rarely see contrails in New Zealand, but unfortunately that doesn't stop the conspiracy from taking root. Luckily I live in an area that clearly the aliens or men in black have no interest in, so I'm safe. Obviously you Americans are more of a threat to them for some reason.
I loved your ploy to expose Santa, very clever. I don't remember exactly when I tweaked to Santa but I was quite young and my parents told me not to tell my cousins who were my age and older, as they still believed. Like you I grew up with religion all around me, but nothing serious luckily. I gravitated to science and how the world worked, and a belief in god, if I ever even had one, simply faded without me even noticing. Then in my teens I found myself actually challenging friends who pushed god rather than reason and evidence, and it's been downhill ever since, morphing into a hard core atheist and skeptic.
Trust me, I have exactly the same questions as you do. How can educated, intelligent people swallow such nonsense, from chemtrails and gods through to aliens and Amway? And strangely, people can often see why one belief is truly silly, but then fall for another that is essentially the same. For example, how can Christians see all the flaws in Islam, and vice versa for Muslims, but not see the same flaws in their own faith?
And yes, I make a good living from spreading disinformation. Funds turn up in my bank every month like clockwork from a secret Swiss account. It's good regular work if you can get it. ;-)
Comment by Ben, 02 Feb, 2014
You may have been unaware that on 25 January there was a Global March Against Chemtrails Geoengineering, centred on Takaka. This was publicised on
What is more TPTB arranged for a fly past and the chemtrail evidence is there for all to see on the website. Sadly the good people of Wellington ignored this opportunity to rally against the evil forces of the reptilian hordes, no doubt because our brains have turned to mush from years of exposure to chemtrails.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 03 Feb, 2014
Hey Ben. You're right, I was unaware of the march against chemtrails in Takaka. I miss all the great events. I can't understand why I didn't see their advertising. Even the TV News failed to report on the march, but I suppose we have The Powers That Be (TPTB) to thank for that! And since for their protest they apparently just stood around on Takaka Village Green, I'm not sure they can really call it a march. But then chemtrail proponents have never let accuracy worry them. I think that the best argument that there are no toxic chemtrails is that the people that claim to be forever standing under them are still alive and being annoying. Clearly the pests that they are supposedly designed to eradicate are still thriving, and even reproducing. Although some proponents argue that the chemtrails aren't designed to kill, but merely to lower a person's IQ to turn them into gullible puppets. In which case, chemtrails might be real and working as planned. Of course then we need to ask why TPTB are plotting against some regions, such as the residents of Takaka, but chemtrails are never seen in my skies?
I guess these people are little different from ignorant peasants in medieval times that were convinced that they could see witches on broomsticks in the skies above them. Witches and evil spells, chemtrails and deadly toxins, only the names have changed. We won't convince these people that evil is not scheming against them, all we can do is slam the door on anyone who wants to talk to us about chemtrails or borrow a cup of bat wings.
Comment by Ben, 03 Feb, 2014
I left a comment on their website suggesting they were off their collective head. To my surprise the comment was published so I have grudging respect for their willingness to acknowledge a contrary view.
Their response is nothing short of bizarre. There is reference to a book Kids' Guide to Clouds. It seems that this is part of the conspiracy to destroy our children's minds. It has details of a 'new type of cloud', cirrostratus. Pardon me, new? I remember learning about this cloud formation at school which was 50 years ago. Has this evil conspiracy been going on for so long and we have never noticed?
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 04 Feb, 2014
Bizarre replies are all you're going to get from Clare Swinney, a committed conspiracy theorist. Who else but a wacko would argue that 'the goal of the UN is to achieve "universal education," which is better known as brainwashing and dumbing down'? And yet strangely people worldwide are on the whole better educated than we have ever been. Can our advancing science and technology really be explained by us getting dumber? On her website Swinney informs readers that she has a M.Sc. (Hons), but if her dumbing down theory were correct, her education would have been mostly lies and disinformation, and thus worthless. Mind you, her claim to fame now seems to be to run a website pushing a silly conspiracy theory, so maybe there is something to this dumbing down claim. Astrologer Ken Ring also decries universities as having hidden agendas and of spreading misinformation.
Swinney goes on to explain that 'the Internet, magazines, books and the ability to conduct scientific tests, allow people the freedom to educate themselves'. Who does Swinny think writes the books and Internet articles that gives one the knowledge to conduct scientific tests? The very experts and authorities that she distrusts, that's who, so if she is to avoid this conspiracy to brainwash us all, she must gather her information on how the world works from those practicing pseudoscience, witches, astrologers, alternative therapists, priests, alien abductees and other conspiracy theorists. Her vision of self-education, learning from the morons around us, can only create in society a fringe group with the ignorance and superstitiousness of medieval peasants.
Swinney continues, 'Thought can not be controlled and the truth will prevail. One can not stop people looking up and seeing aerosols being sprayed...' The truth will indeed prevail, in fact it has already triumphed in that almost everyone sees the claim that a secret, evil power is deliberately poisoning us with toxic chemtrails as pure nonsense, but conspiracy theorists, adverse and distrustful as they are to reason and scientific evidence, are blinded to the truth. They will continue to look up and imagine that they are seeing planes spraying them like bugs, or perhaps witches on broomsticks, or alien spacecraft, or gods in chariots, or maybe even Santa. What they won't see is the truth.
Comment by Anonymous-11, 05 Feb, 2014
In response to Ben, my comments to Clair Swinney's amazingly gullible site have not been allowed to appear. Maybe because I used such words. That in itself says a lot, I think. She only broadcasts responses when she thinks she has an argument against them. Otherwise she does not permit them to appear. I have informed her that the link between alzheimers and aluminium has been shown to be erroneous, let's see if she will correct herself on that.
Comment by Alison, 08 Feb, 2014
Hi John. You said, in addressing some of the weird claims about chemtrails, that some proponents claim that "the chemtrails aren't designed to kill, but merely to lower a person's IQ to turn them into gullible puppets."
If the chemtrails are doing their job then how come anyone has the brains to even recognise them?
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 09 Feb, 2014
Ahhh, there you go Alison, thinking again. It will be your downfall I tells ya. If The Powers That Be get wind of your logic, common sense and skepticism then your area will be next for a liberal spraying. Don't say you weren't warned.
Comment by Mike, 18 Feb, 2014
If your Avocados haven't been up to scratch this year then maybe chemtrails are to blame!!
Are chemtrails ruining Golden Bay gardens?
The article is satire..... but the comments from the believers are, as always, priceless — especially Clare Swinney's attempt to be "scientific" about anything at all!
Comment by Anonymous-12, 11 Mar, 2014
It's not that important for u or anyone to try to debunk or discredit any stated theory or play down the actual reason for chemtrails as being benign in nature like weather modification, etc & what u claim are just a myriad of silly theories. We the people who try our best to eat wholesome organic foods & rigorously avoid consuming food laced with toxic mind bending & immune culling additives, fluoridated water nor partake in vaccines know they are spraying craps on us & that it most definitely effects us in a critically negative way! Whats most important is that no one knows the short or long term health effects of experimenting this insane nonsense on humans, animals, plant life & most of all what its doing to this planet. Is it worth the risk of losing everything? I surely dont think so. I can attest that whats been going on above us for over the last decade surely isn't good for my health or any other living things well being to say the least & their efforts have seemed to triple in the last year or two. Chemicals & aerosols sprayed into the air we breath every day is certainly not doing us any favors!! My health in particular & various others I've spoken to over the last decade have noticed a huge decline in their health & have accumulated various health disorders that were not present in the 1990's. Scientists have proven huge abnormalities in the environment over the last decade & have found quite consist conclusive evidence of extremely high levels of various types of heavy metals in air, soil, & water. There are even pro-organic or naturopathic folks out there who are now finding the same results in organic foods, plant life & animals. If this is program is allowed to continue for much longer, then eventually nothing will grow due to soil imbalances as a result of good bacteria soil microbes dying off from heavy metal poisoning & simultaneously causing acidic, neutral & alkaline soils to become too in the negative or alkaline & this spells BAD for us all! Now i understand that Monsanto Company has GMO'd a new abomination of aluminum resistant food crop seed's. Millions of people around the globe feel the same about this horrible issue. Sorry silly guy! For me, the proof is in the pudding & the writings on the wall..
I also found my own proof of this heavy metal contamination after many doctors could not uncovering was causing my myriad of health issues. Various high levels of toxic heavy metals, which is not normally found in soils & water are whats claimed to be found in these tests on chemtrail contamination. I asked him to take some blood samples & send some labs out for independent testing of heavy metal levels. The results were shocking!! Levels at 2.9% considered normal in humans for US. My labs came back an insane 17.5%. My Doc is a good & smart holistic professional. I dont have the test handy to read post specifics, but u should get the point.
& John, for now, u feel ok bcuz your immune system is healthy enough to suppress any reaction from the toxins that your body is exposed to, but later in life it will get worn down & u will die a premature death. The most common symptom's that people get from chemtrails are allergy symptoms; like sneezing, wheezing, runny nose, congestion, sinus congestion, sinusitis, itchy or dry eyes, achy muscles & joint pain. This all can later exactly into chronic arthritis, fibromyalgia, MS & many neurological disorders & auto immune diseases, autism, dementia & Alzheimer's at not so old ages, etc... This phenomenon is called the great culling, along with all the toxins in the food, water & environment. Its done quite intentionally sorry to say
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 12 Mar, 2014
Let me get this right. You believe that some evil unseen group is conspiring to wipe out all life on Earth, starting with you and your friends? And yet you accuse me of coming up with a 'myriad of silly theories'? Really?
So tell me, why are you so dangerous to their evil scheme that you must be eliminated first? Why are you a threat to them? Evidently it's no accident that you have been targeted, you argue that 'Its done quite intentionally sorry to say' and that for you the evidence is clear, 'the proof is in the pudding & the writings on the wall'. Why is the evidence that exposes chemtrails only found in and around houses that are occupied by chemtrail believers? Wouldn't it make sense for the evil conspirators to be especially careful not reveal their machinations to people like you that are already suspicious? And yet you guys are evidently swimming in contaminated puddings and walls covered with graffiti that all clearly point to an evil plot, while those of us that are dismissive of a conspiracy, our puddings and walls are kept squeaky clean. Why are they not only letting secrets slip around you guys, but they're also letting you warn the world? Why doesn't their evil, murderous plot involve shutting you guys up?
And can you explain why as a group you lot that believe in chemtrails are evidently less healthy, both physically and mentally, than the rest of us? You avoid chemtrails like the plague and do your 'best to eat wholesome organic foods & rigorously avoid consuming food laced with toxic mind bending & immune culling additives, fluoridated water nor partake in vaccines'. But the rest of us laugh at fluffy clouds, consume normal food, drink fluoridated water and use vaccines, so since by your argument we are being poisoned by multiple sources, not just chemtrails, we should probably be dead already, or at least very ill, with our health being much, much worse than you chemtrail believers. And yet it's you that has 'noticed a huge decline' in your health over the last decade and you now have a 'myriad of health issues'. So clearly fleeing from chemtrails, avoiding normal food and water and refusing vaccines hasn't done you any favours! Maybe you should reconsider and seek a second opinion?
Also, can you not understand that if chemtrails were real they would be poisoning everyone, everyone would be showing specific symptoms, not just one person in a family of six, and another person on the other side of town, and three other people in the next state? When the Nazis gassed the Jews in the camps, everyone died, not just one or two. So please explain why these chemtrail toxins getting into every house and into the lungs of everyone are only affecting one person in every few thousand? It seems that most everyone will die of natural causes long before the chemtrail toxin kicks in. It must be one of the most pathetic attempts at genocide ever! More people die each year slipping in the shower. You say you have elevated levels of heavy metals, so do all those around you, living under the same chemtrails, have elevated levels too? I suspect it is just you or else you would have said that your entire family and the whole community were suffering. So why aren't they? Again, why are chemtrails and the unknown entities that spray them targeting just you?
And you even argue that chemtrail toxins are not powerful enough to affect healthy people, so what are you saying, they're just targeting old people? Are chemtrails just a scheme to free up rooms in rest homes for the elderly? Once you become old and infirm and your immune system drops below a certain threshold, absorbed chemtrail toxins will activate and automatically euthanize you? I'm sorry, but claiming that as we get older we are more likely to get arthritis, dementia & Alzheimer's etc because of chemtrails rather than simple aging is laughable, as ridiculous as claiming chemtrails cause puberty. Have you considered that it is not chemtrails that cause dementia as you believe, but dementia that causes people to see chemtrails?
You claim that 'no one knows the short or long term health effects of experimenting this insane nonsense on humans, animals, plant life & most of all what its doing to this planet'. How do you know this? Unless you know exactly who is spraying chemtrails and why and exactly what research they have done, then you're just guessing. Just because you have no idea what is happening doesn't mean your alleged conspirators are equally ignorant.
Psychic mediums that talk to the dead, fools that believe in gods and demons and even a witch have all written saying that they feel sorry for me since I can't accept their various wild claims, and now you do they same. And like them, you trot out unsupported claims that reflect more paranoia than reason. Several decades ago you would have been blaming your ill health on some commie plot, several centuries ago on a witch's curse. To claim that 'This phenomenon is called the great culling' is as empty as Christians claiming that natural disasters are the handiwork of Satan. But even your talk of a cull is nonsense. To cull is to deliberately select some individuals from a group and eliminate them, and yet you claim that chemtrails spray their toxins blindly on everyone below, be they serial rapist or university professor. So this isn't a cull, it's an extermination of all life on Earth, and you list humans, animals, plant life, bacteria etc. So is it aliens that are behind the chemtrails, and why are some humans helping make our own planet unfit for humans?
One minute you chemtrail believers say you know what's happening and why, and that the rest of us are blind, and the next minute you say 'no one knows'. Which is it? If you know the answers then reveal them, if you don't then admit that chemtrails might just be innocent vapour trails, and the evil plot to destroy all life on Earth just the result of an over active imagination. OK? Either we see answers and evidence or your silly belief goes into the box with gods, demons and witches.
Comment by Mike, 12 Mar, 2014
Actually yes it is for me to debunk the chemtrail hoax. Boeing 737-200's were introduced to New Zealand on NAC's domestic services in 1968 — they left contrails spanning the sky above Christchurch where I was a child in the 60's — they would fly Wellington-Dunedin leaving a contrail, and it would still be there an hour later when they flew back the reverse route. Then in 1976 I started working on those same jets as an apprentice mechanic for NAC — including overhauling airframes, engines and fuel systems. There was no part of those aircraft I did crawl all over — indeed as apprentices we got the jobs of crawling into all the tight spaces (inside the wing fuel tanks for example), and all the (literally) shitty jobs like cleaning toilet components.
I have been working in aviation ever since.
So the numpties that believe this great evil is going on are accusing me of being complicit in the crime — and I'm not going to put up with their censorship or their idiot accusations.
And I'm more than happy for anyone else to point out the myriad stupidities in the hoax too — anyone doing so is doing a social service helping to prevent the spread of needless fear and worry.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 13 Mar, 2014
Quite right Mike, it is insulting that these chemtrail believers imply that thousands of apparently decent, hardworking citizens are knowingly part of an evil plot to murder billions, that you and your associates are uncaring mass murderers. They clearly aren't bright enough to grasp what their conspiracy allegations must imply. As you say, there is enough to worry about in this world without these morons needlessly terrorising a gullible public with groundless fantasies, and thus it is important to debunk them.
Comment by Phill, 13 Mar, 2014
Hi John — reading the previous comment got me to thinking that the biggest problem faced by us these days is an unwillingness to look at evidence dispassionately. The above person is convinced that chem trails are real and therefore are to be blamed for his failing health, but I ask what does the evidence say.
Now let us for a moment accept the hypothesis that chem trails are real. That for the last thirty to forty years governments of the world have been spraying their citizens with some strange concoction of chemicals. What has been the overall result of this grand experiment — better health. The reality is that in this modern age of ours we live longer and tend to be healthier than previous generations. Back in the 1950's and 60's when these alleged chem trails were supposed to have started people were old at 50, ancient at 60 and dead by 70. Now look at us, 50 year olds are seen as active members of society, 60 year olds are enjoying a new freedom of life, and anyone dying before age 70 or even in their early 70's are thought of as of dying too young! So the evidence is in, chem trails are good for us! So please super secret simi government alien corporate organisation responsible for these wonderful chemicals — please more of the same and do you have that in a pill form?
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 13 Mar, 2014
Good argument Phill, I'm convinced, if chemtrails are real then they are beneficial not harmful. The problem today is, as you point out, that many people don't realise just how much general health and longevity has improved over the last century. We live in the best of times. They also fail to grasp that we also have at our disposal the most deadly toxins and pathogens ever known and very efficient means of distributing them over the entire planet. If some powerful and secret world government in collaboration with the world's elite scientists decided to poison the population, then we would all be dead by now. And, as some maintain, if highly advanced aliens are actually running the show, then, well, things only become more efficient and deadly. As you argue, the evidence clearly shows that the world's population is not dying off, just the opposite.
Comment by Anonymous-13, 13 Mar, 2014
Bloody hell — if this guy has 17.5% heavy metals in his blood, he'd be worth mining. He'd also be very dead. Unless it was iron — which is a heavy metal — and the sample was blood solids — even then it would be a very high fraction I would think (I'm not an expert in this area). I suspect that your correspondent doesn't know his/her % from ppm or even ppb. But if he/she is worried, I'd blame all that organic food, since that will be the main source of minerals and heavy metals. Those nasty organic farmers do actually use heavy metals in sprays — specifically copper, to deal with fungi.
I like your quip that the chemtrails are caused by the dementia, not vice versa. Very true.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 13 Mar, 2014
I agree, if this chemtrail believer has such a dangerous level of heavy metals in their blood, then their doctor is doing them a disservice by simply advising them to hide under their bed with the windows closed when chemtrails are in the sky. I assume this was their doctor's advice, since the implication is that the doctor supports the chemtrail theory, and they make no mention of considering other sources, such as their organic food, and who knows what other alternative therapies and weird potions this person may be ingesting.
Comment by Anonymous-14, 21 Apr, 2014
[You write that]
'This website is an attempt to turn the tide. To stop the 'dumbing down of society', the turning away from science and the return to the beliefs of medieval peasants....'
This website is an attempt to help and aid the powerful few in 'dumbing down of society'
And created by closed and conditioned minds, that know very little of reality......
Watch and learn,
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 22 Apr, 2014
You are very brave in speaking out and making your awareness of this evil plot known. You know they'll be coming for you now, you know that don't you? The totally evil and immoral 'powerful few' that have no qualms in poisoning millions will not hesitate in silencing a nobody like yourself who has the audacity to reveal their devious plot to the masses. If it's not already too late, I suggest you immediately ... oh who am I kidding, it is too late. Your fate is sealed, they've invested too many resources into their plan and too many have died for them to stop now. Don't answer the door! It may buy you a little time.
But seriously, all this secrecy and money to give a few people 'eyesight issues' or 'hormonal problems'! Why don't they just poison the water supplies? Jeez, even with all their resources, they appear to be most incompetent killers on the planet. And some wacko petitioning the UN is meaningless in itself. When the UN and their experts believes them, then and only then might I think that there could be something to the silly chemtrail conspiracy. Until then, I see chemtrails as no different to the following common fear in modern society:
Mummy, mummy, there's a monster in my closet! ... Why won't you believe me? ... Are you working with the monster? ... Am I the only one that can see what's happening here? ... Don't come crawling to me when the closet monsters take over the world!
Comment by Mike, 22 Apr, 2014
Ahhh... someone thinking "Before its News" is actually news — how quaint!! Even other "conspiracy" sites are starting to realise how bad it is — eg it is considered a hoax site even on "Above Top Secret" — anything sourced solely from there gets shoved straight to their "Hoax" bin!!
See http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread957015/pg1 —
"We've come to realization that "Before It's News" has pushed more hoaxes than "Sorcha Faal" ever did, therefor ALL threads started with BIN as the only source will go immediately into the HOAX Bin. For now we won't hold it against the member, but, after a month or so of this policy being in effect repeat offenders will be up for an account review. We've been told there are some "interested parties" (read as people who may be getting a slice of BIN's ad money) who have ATS accounts, that won't fly here.
We don't want to support an operation that continues to push ridiculous hoaxes, just to garner page views with traffic from ATS."
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 22 Apr, 2014
Thanks for the info Mike. Of course the morons will only argue that even some 'conspiracy' sites such as "Above Top Secret" have now been corrupted and infiltrated by The Powers That Be, their evil influence having spread further than the chemtrail warriors had realised.
Comment by Anonymous-15, 30 Apr, 2014
Just go outside when the sky is hazy, and do all of humanity a favor and breath deeply. One less troll with which to contend. You may have been able to pass your site off as science based a couple of years ago, but now you just appear to be incredibly ignorant.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 01 May, 2014
It's depressing to discover how mean-spirited if not downright evil some of you conspiracy theorists are. Like a typical faceless, spineless Internet bully you goad me to commit suicide. You want to bring about my death for your own selfish motives, and yet you have the arrogance to complain loudly when others, or so you claim, want to bring about your death because they find you surplus to their plans. If these toxic chemtrails are real and your kind are being targeted, maybe it is for the betterment of society and progress after all.
You call me a troll, and yet it is you that has visited our site and left vile, anonymous comments. Please look in a mirror. And typical of all conspiracy theorists you imply that the scientific evidence supports your delusion, and yet you all refrain from presenting this clear evidence, and ignore the embarrassing fact that scientists giggle at your gullibility and unquestioning belief. The only thing that fuels your conspiracy is your scientific illiteracy and irrationality. Since you lot are always looking fearfully towards the skies, I'm wondering what else you've seen, perhaps witches on broomsticks, Santa in his sleigh, aliens in their space cruisers, or maybe even gods tossing lightning bolts? Frankly videos of these things would be more interesting than those of boring, wispy clouds, which strangely you lot seem happy to go out and film, when one expects that after sighting them you should be trembling under your beds rather than reaching for a camera.
It astounds me that you lot actually believe that evil forces want to kill you, and not me for some reason, and that silly chemtrails are the best way they can think of doing it. The fact the you're still around to write base comments clearly shows that their plan isn't working. Can you not grasp the problem that your continued survival presents for your conspiracy theory?
Comment by Anonymous-16, 01 May, 2014
I'm no "nutter", but you can plainly watch the same couple of high flying (higher than commercial airliners), planes spraying a trail behind them, all day on a blue sky day. My guess is that it's a program aimed at reflecting sun rays back upward to avoid the effects of warming. I was skeptical at first, but now all one has to do is watch the sky being systematically criss crossed by these same planes. Commercial planes don't leave these trails and the trails left by faster flying military planes dissipate quickly.
Believe what you want!
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 01 May, 2014
Well no actually, I can't, and most people probably can't, see these two planes you talk of. Why might they only be spraying your little bit of sky, and do you really think that spraying a small fraction of a percent of the planet's sky will make any difference? You would have to spray most of the planet, and contrary to the belief of chemtrail proponents, chemtrails are not seen in most places. Your belief is a fallacy know as the 'argument from ignorance'; because you don't know what the trails might be, you assume that no one does and you admit that you have simply taken a guess. This is not how one discovers the truth. You should seriously see if you can regain your skepticism, and look into the matter using reason and scientific evidence.
You finished by saying, 'Believe what you want!' I try not to believe what I want, I believe what is supported by reason and evidence. By this I mean that I know people that want to believe, for example, in loving gods, but reality takes no notice of what we want to be true.
Comment by Mike, 01 May, 2014
I've been outside and breathing on many hazy days... and I'm still able to breathe inside tonight. Apparently it isn't all that poisonous at all.
The myth that contrails cannot persist is an interesting one — it has no basis in fact at all, and yet gets trotted out by believers without any sort of attempt to justify it. And it is not like it is difficult to see the problem with it — cirrus clouds can last for hours, and they are ice crystals......so why can't contrail ice crystals also last for hours?? :puz:
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 02 May, 2014
Same here Mike, hazy days don't see the local mortality rates spike, so I suspect being fearful of hazy days is similar to being fearful of getting struck by droppings from Santa's reindeer. As for not trotting out claims that have no basis in fact, if conspiracy theorists followed that advice they'd have nothing to talk about.
Comment by Zafir, 02 May, 2014
Hi John. This article is worth a look.
Spraying nano-sized titaniumdioxide into the atmosphere to combat climate change
Blocking incoming solar radiation is an option as we transition to a low CO2 economy. The Mt Pinatubo eruption had caused a reduction on the Earth's energy budget. The article suggest that Titanium Dioxide (TiO2) would be a better alternative to SO2.
These two quotes from the article show why it is very unlikely that there are currently planes spraying chemicals for this purpose.
"With a candidate particle identified, the next challenge is devising a system to effectively and economically lift and disperse millions of tons of particles some 20 km (~ 65,000 feet) up into the stratosphere, so they stay up for a couple of years and do not immediately get rained out."
It would not surprise me a great deal, if there will be experiments to be carried out in this field, but why keep it secretive. You could hardly get them to shut up given how important climate change is.
"The total capital cost of the balloon, tethers, ultra high pressure pumps, and the production and transport of the particles is estimated to be £500m plus £600m in annual operating costs in a paper to be published by the Royal Society. These costs are perhaps thirty times lower than the next best technologies considered, such as large numbers of very sophisticated jet aircraft, and do not have the same carbon footprint."
Until the people that keep banging on about chemtrials can come up with measurable data then they do belong in the nutty category.
'The skies didn't have clouds like those when I was a little fella' does not constitute measurable data.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 02 May, 2014
Thanks very much for the interesting article Zafir. Chemtrail proponents fail to understand that we skeptics are not denying that particles COULD be sprayed into the atmosphere to combat climate change, we are arguing that there is no good evidence that this IS actually happening. But like most conspiracy theorists, they can't even agree as to what the purpose of these chemtrails are, eg climate control, weather control, earthquake weapons, genocide, population control, mind control, fertility control or pretty cloud patterns etc. Not only that, they can't decide who is doing the spraying, is it some secret world government, evil aliens, groups such as the Freemasons, Jews or Illuminati, or maybe even the Boys Scouts?
Chemtrails believers really need to settle on the same goal and bad guy for their chemtrails and present a united front, since they appear to be their own worse enemy, more often than not arguing with each other as to what's happening and why.
Comment by Doug, 07 May, 2014
Aside from recent silly posts of alarm about "threads" in the atmosphere as being evidence of planes dropping stuff on us (they are actually threads used by baby spiders to fly away to colonise new areas), Claire Swinney keeps posting stuff like the following on her very silly site Northland New Zealand Chemtrails Watch:
"Thank-you very much to Tom MacRae. He collected two rainwater samples in Hamilton, New Zealand in March and April, 2014 and sent them to Hill Laboratories for testing for the three elements being found globally in association with sightings of aerosol trails. The full report from Hills may be viewed in pdf format here: 1266087-DWP-1.
Tom sent rainwater samples for testing, as he and his partner Mischele had serious concerns about the masses of aerosol material in the sky over their region. As the results below show, aluminium, barium and strontium were present in the rain.
My response to the site was as follows — but they have never seen fit to actually put anything critical of their misinformation in their replies/discussions, such is their lack of confidence in their own beliefs:
In a number of New Zealand rainwater samples, the concentration of aluminium was found to be about ten times that of the barium. For example, rainwater from Whangarei in April-May, 2013, contained aluminium at a concentration of 0.027 g/m3 to barium of 0.0024 g/m3.. Likewise, rainwater from Nelson in April, 2012, had aluminium at a concentration of 0.54 g/m3 to barium of 0.06 g/m3, and another from Nelson from June, 2010, had an aluminium concentration of 0.046 g/m3 to barium of 0.004 g/m3. These results from Hamilton show aluminium is 5.6 times the concentration of the barium in the sample dated 14-15 March 2014 and 7.6 times the concentration of barium in the sample dated April the 3rd, 2014. The aluminium, barium and strontium that is falling with the rain and from the atmosphere, is accumulating in the environment and poisoning it slowly."
- At such concentrations, the analytical data accuracy depends critically on the cleanliness of the collection system and containers. Strict protocols must be followed if the numbers are to mean anything. This is not a criticism of the laboratory unless they provided the containers. Your article has provided no assurance that any reliability can be placed on the numbers.
- Of themselves, the numbers are not any cause for alarm. They are what would be expected in rainfall that contains some seaspray — and New Zealand, being a maritime landmass, must be expected to have a significant seapray component in its rain much of the time.
- Seawater has a pH of about 8.2. So having seaspray in rainfall will increase the pH, as you have observed.
- In other words, you have provided no believable evidence that there is anything untoward in your article.
Instead of just censoring critical comment, I dare you to put this in your discussions and let someone try and show how I am incorrect and you are correct. But I know that you won't so I'll copy this and send it to Sillybeliefs where they have a running critique of this silly belief.
I do have a PhD in Geochemistry so I have some idea what I am talking about.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 07 May, 2014
Doug, if they replied, they would simply say that you are wrong and incorrect in your argument because clearly dark forces are out to get us and anyone who denies that is in collusion with The Powers That Be. Frankly, I think an expertise in psychiatry would be of more use with this crowd, to try and gain an insight into what's going on between their ears.
Comment by Gordon, 08 Jul, 2014
On chemtrails. I was a little skeptical about chemtrails being sprayed in our atmosphere until 2 weeks ago. A friend and I were sitting on the back deck of her home. It was around 7 p.m. on an otherwise clear evening. The only clouds were long wide clouds that stayed in place for an hour or more, basically never moving. Some were showing a rainbow in them. What really startled us both, was that these chemtrails or whatever they were, must have been at least 20,000 feet. We saw one being formed and you could see the cloud but not the plane. As we sat there watching, we began looking toward the dark woods behind the house. Between us and the wood line there was clearly small drops falling to the ground. Not with the velocity of rain or drizzle, but non the less, falling even onto the deck where we were sitting. Again, looking up in the sky was a rainbow that looked miles high and both ends were visible, unlike a rainbow normally begins and ends on the horizon. This "rain" continued until dark. The original chemtrail clouds were still there along with several more that we had noted. Also, we saw jetliners crossing the sky leaving what we always called a vapor trail or contrail. This would dissipate in just a matter of minutes unlike those from the other jets. We hear a lot about climate change, man's contributions to climate change. I feel that whatever the government is doing in our atmosphere is no doubt having as much if not more impact on climate change. Personally, I think climate change is a natural occuring phenomenon. But what we witnessed on that day is scary to say the least.
[Regarding chemtrails you wrote:]
"Indeed the reason is quite simple, and that is that people should not believe everything they see. The world and history is full of people seeing something they don't understand and jumping to the wrong conclusion."
Let me tell you something. The world is full of people that wouldn't admit they are wrong if they stared it right in the face. Case in point: Obama and his immigration policy.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 08 Jul, 2014
Hi Gordon, while you disagree with a quote I made, I fear that your comments show that it is all too true. You have apparently seen something that you don't understand and have jumped, if not to the wrong conclusion, at the very least to an unjustified conclusion.
You admit that couldn't see the cause of your 'chemtrails or whatever they were', that you saw no planes, even though you could see the jetliners (and their contrails) which fly higher than your 20,000 feet high chemtrails. You have no idea what the 'small drops falling to the ground' were made of, you have no evidence that they weren't just plain water, let alone toxic chemicals, and you offered no good reason to suggest that these drops actually originated from the 'chemtrail'. I say this because you didn't mention any wind and so in order for the small drops to fall on you the chemtrails would have to be directly in a line above you and the woods. Were they? The other problem I have with the small drops and the chemtrails is that whatever made up the 'chemtrail', whatever chemicals it was composed of, they were still up there, that's why you could still see it much later. If you're assuming, as other chemtrail proponents do, that the small drops that fell on the deck are what chemtrails are supposed to do, that is spray chemicals directly on the earth and the population, then what is the chemtrail all about? Why can you still see it if the mysterious, and many will say toxic, chemicals have already fallen on your deck? Why do these chemtrail people deliberately put something in their chemtrails to mark the skies for hours, even though its important chemicals have evidently already fallen out of the chemtrail and onto your deck? If they're trying to hide their toxic spraying, why do they make their chemtrails so visible? It's almost as bad as producing brightly coloured trails like those produced by aerobatic planes. If chemtrail engineers want their chemicals to drop and do something, why do chemtrails stubbornly stay where they were sprayed?
I'm forever surprised that these chemtrail engineers are evidently so brilliant that they can produce deviously engineered toxic chemicals and spray them the world over without the worlds scientists detecting them, but they can't devise a simple invisible spray that doesn't hang around for hours advertising their dastardly actions, a chemtrail that effectively screams, 'We were here!!!'
You also seem to go on to imply that chemtrails are somehow connected to climate change, and argue that 'whatever the government is doing in our atmosphere is no doubt having as much if not more impact on climate change'. But again, there is no evidence that any government is covertly spraying chemtrails, for any reason. You also contradict yourself when you say that you 'think climate change is a natural occuring phenomenon'. If it's natural, the argument being that what man does can't and isn't causing climate change, then you can't blame the government and their chemtrails for being part of the problem, since you'd now be arguing that man can indeed affect the climate.
You finish by saying that 'The world is full of people that wouldn't admit they are wrong if they stared it right in the face. Case in point: Obama and his immigration policy'. Considering my debates with religious people, you are no doubt correct, but your observation is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with your chemtrail comments. You imply that there is clear and irrefutable evidence that chemtrails are real, and that I'm being obstinate. Yet even you admitted that until a fortnight ago you were skeptical of the claims made for chemtrails, that seemingly you knew of no good evidence supporting them. And you still don't. All that has changed is that you saw some 'chemtrails or whatever they were' and around the same time felt some 'small drops falling to the ground', that you called "rain". That's all it took for you to lose your skepticism, some 'long wide clouds' and some light precipitation.
You say that 'what we witnessed on that day is scary to say the least', but to shake my skepticism on chemtrails, you'll need to produce some strong evidence, not just a sight you found scary.
Comment by Mike, 13 Jul, 2014
Quite a lot of people seem to have "recently seen" something that has gotten them down off the fence to believing chemtrails exist. I find this surprising — they have known of the debate and presumably seen at least photos and videos of "chemtrails"..... so why does seeing one "in person" make such an impact? I think it is because they are not being honest. I believe they use the meme "I was on the fence about chemtrails" to try to give some credence to their supposed conversion, whereas it is no conversion at all. So yeah, I think they are being dishonest. Sorry Gordon — I do not believe you. The chemtrail myth already has a long history of dishonesty in its creation and continued support — so I'm filing this as another instance.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 13 Jul, 2014
Yes, good point Mike. I've seen this often in claims about gods, ghosts, psychic mediums and alternative therapies etc, where people start as Gordon did, 'I was a little skeptical... ', or as born again Christians love to say, 'I used to be an atheist', and then they relate a childishly simple event that immediately made them change their position. I usually find that they knew next to nothing about their pet topic before their conversion and that their knowledge didn't increase one iota afterwards either. They simply changed sides or jumped off the fence on little more than an emotional whim. Some may have convinced themselves that the event that they witnessed clearly justified their conversion, just as medieval peasants believed that lightning hitting their house was a warning from God to mend their ways, but they are mistaken, swayed by emotion not reason.
Others as you say Mike are already believers, but they invent fake conversions to make out that first hand experience of something weird will open the eyes of skeptics and atheists alike to the truth. Until we see it for ourselves, seemingly we are all suffering from apathy or denial. But if it just came down to believing in what people thought they saw in the sky, with no supporting evidence whatsoever, we would all still believe in gods in their fiery chariots, witches on broomsticks, Santa in his sleigh, anal-probing aliens, and of course, invisible planes spraying their toxic chemtrails.
And if we believe Gordon really got sprayed, these toxins didn't seem to do him or his friend any harm. Nor are the devious people doing the spraying seemingly concerned with Gordon spilling the beans, or at least aren't able to stop him. Teenagers can figure out how to secretly watch women undress in their bedrooms by using webcams, but the eggheads behind chemtrails can't figure out how to disrupt Gordon's Internet connection and stop him revealing their secrets.
Comment by Gordon, 23 Jul, 2014
Mike, Maybe I'll remove my pickup's windshield and send it to you. The "invisible" planes I referred to are at least 30,000 feet. I cannot prove nor can you disprove the existence of chemtrails. I can only say that out of those trails, something was falling and it wasn't rain.
OH and one other thing, toxins can be deployed in many ways. Also, radiation poisoning, herbicide poisoning, smoking, asbestos inhalation, cotton fibers, silica, coal dust and many other things that can do physical harm like smoking, or asbestosis, will show up years after exposure. And your rather smart comment basically saying they do not have a personal vendettta against me is just your crude way of belittling anyone that does not share your very EXPERT and infinite wisdom.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 23 Jul, 2014
Gordon, I notice in your reply to Mike that the '"invisible" planes I referred to are at least 30,000 feet', and yet in your original account you said that 'these chemtrails or whatever they were, must have been at least 20,000 feet'. You've now increased their height by 50%, that's a huge discrepancy. This is why skeptics are suspicious of testimonials and anecdotes, details change on the retelling, and people don't realise that they're often not very good at judging things like distance. Also, are we expected to believe that something noticeably reduced the vision through your windshield a month ago and you still haven't bothered to clean it? If you have tried but can't remove it, then why haven't you tried to get the authorities to examine and explain the damage to your windshield?
When you say 'I cannot prove nor can you disprove the existence of chemtrails', this is only an admission of ignorance. Imagine if a child said, 'I cannot prove nor can you disprove the existence of Santa Claus'. She would be telling the truth, but would this shake your worldview, would you feel the need to reconsider your view of Santa based on her statement? Of course not. We don't need to disprove the existence of Santa Claus, or chemtrails, we only need to show that based on reason and evidence, the rational stance is that they likely don't exist. Our naïve child can, like you, go on to say, 'I can only say that out of those stockings presents came, and they weren't there when I went to bed'. Like you though, the child is reaching a false conclusion, based not on real evidence but formed from the false belief that Santa is real. Believe in Santa and it's easy to believe that all presents must be from him, believe in chemtrails and all strange clouds must be man-made killer clouds.
I was not trying to belittle you by highlighting the fact the those creating the toxic chemtrails are ignoring you, I was trying to get you to confront a problem with your evil conspiracy, which is this: Why would the evil, murderous people that are out to harm, if not kill, millions of people with their chemtrails, and desperate to keep their plot secret, why would these same cold-hearted killers hesitate killing the odd individual such as yourself who are revealing their evil machinations to the world? Why don't they care that you're revealing their evil plot? We've all heard about the witness that was going to testify against some Mob boss that mysteriously turns up dead the day before the trial, or the political opponents that speak out against some dictator that likewise die mysterious deaths, so why are the creators of chemtrails that are apparently harming us on a monumental scale, and who are desperate that their work remain secret, why are they happy to let tattletales like yourself tell the world? This is a problem that chemtrail believers fail to address, why the chemtrail killers are too afraid to even send you a threatening email. The people employed to spread these chemtrails no doubt have to sign very clear non-disclosure agreements that threaten real and very serious punishment if they are contravened. These corporations will obviously see complete secrecy as paramount for success of their plan, and would logically go to great lengths, legal or otherwise, to maintain that secrecy. So why don't they care when an outsider reveals their secrets? Are we really to believe that they say, 'Well, they don't work for us so we can't do anything'. Why are these killers afraid of you and all the other chemtrail believers Gordon, why don't they try and silence you? Why aren't there chemtrails over your house 24/7?
And really Gordon, I don't think one needs 'very EXPERT and infinite wisdom' to wonder this.
Comment by Mikaere, 24 Jul, 2014
It takes only a few questions to expose most conspiracy theories as fallacies. For chemtrails I could suggest asking a radar technician whether he/she has encountered any non-scheduled aircraft flying at altitudes where these chemicals are supposedly delivered. How about asking a meteorologist about how far a jetstream would disperse any spray released above 30,000ft? Our local helicopter jockeys can't even keep their spray on the target paddock from 50ft!
As with the moon-landing conspiracy nonsense, so many people would have to be muzzled to keep chemtrails a secret.
Caveman "thinking" prevails. Scientific rigour and logical reasoning for most is as far off as the second coming...
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 24 Jul, 2014
Not surprisingly I agree 100% with you Mikaere, but caveman "thinking" would of course see chemtrail believers asserting that radar technicians and meteorologists are all part of the conspiracy... duh! Just like religious fundamentalists, I frankly don't think anything could convince committed chemtrail believers, they are a lost cause. But as you've done, it is fun to point out the flaws in their claims, and hopefully this debunking will help those sitting on the fence, those that are curious and ill-informed, but willing to go where the evidence points.
Comment by Mike, 24 Jul, 2014
Gordon should send his windscreen to a lab for analysis of whatever the drops are. Then he might be able to show some connection with "chemtrails" if he can also show that those "chemtrails" contain the same substances. That would be GOOD evidence. But since chemtrail believers are not willing to put enough money into the pot to sample those trails in the sky his say so remains all the evidence that is available — and that is not enough to make any reasonable connection.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 24 Jul, 2014
The more I think about Gordon's story, the more I'm tempted to go with your original sentiment Mike: 'Sorry Gordon — I do not believe you'. In Gordon's original telling of the tale, two weeks after the event, he made no mention of his windshield being noticeably affected by the chemtrail fallout. Why not? Clearly it wasn't badly affected then, certainly not enough for him to notice or consider a connection with the chemtrails. Now, a month later, he's noticed a problem with his windshield, 'something' is on it, and clutching at straws, he insists that that 'something' must have come from the 'long wide clouds' that he saw a month before. To me this windshield detail is either an embellishment or a real problem caused much later by something that clearly has no connection with chemtrails.
And is it not strange that he's evidently prepared to go to the expense and bother of removing his windshield and sending it to you to prove his argument, but apparently can't be bothered taking it somewhere local, intact, to have it scientifically analysed, or at least cleaned? Or are some of his statements just empty talk designed to satisfy gullible folk?
Comment by Ben, 24 Jul, 2014
If one sees some film of the US. Air Force in WW2 there are many examples of the bombers leaving vapour trails. I now realise that the Germans were not defeated by force of arms; the Americans poisoned them. Talk about unfair.
In the 50s I was a kid growing up on a flight path to Heathrow. I used to lie in the garden watching the vapour trails for hours. I never realised that I was being poisoned. God only knows how I have reached old age having survived 'elite' plots of chemtrails, vaccination, fluoride and any number of dastardly schemes to control me.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 24 Jul, 2014
Yes Ben, clearly their devious plots are very cunning ones, their nasty toxins cleverly designed to act very, very, very, very slowly and to mimic the process of growing old.
And of course they could only get away with using fast acting toxins in the WW2 chemtrails over Germany becasue lots of people dying at this time was not unusual. They could just blame it on the Nazis if anyone noticed anything untoward. Which they didn't.
Comment by Anonymous-17, 03 Sep, 2014
If they're spraying at 30,000 feet, on a targeted area, lets just say St. Louis, Mo., at that height, what guarantees it won't drift out over the Atlantic, succeeding only in killing some poor little fishies?... Not a very precise method, is it... I was actually reading where someone asked about why won't it affect the family of those who are in on the evil plot, and the answer was that they knew the days of the spraying, and that they were instructed to stay indoors, on those days... Forget about Johnny's friends, Jimmy and Joey, from down the street... How friggin' evil would these people have to be?... C'mon, people!... Use the 7 brain cells still remaining after that Bong fest you attended, last week.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 04 Sep, 2014
The trouble is that I suspect chemtrail believers need the majority of what few brain cells they have just to keep their body alive and the remaining handful are woefully insufficient to rationally consider and detect the silly flaws in these silly chemtrail stories. Like the poor little fishies you mentioned, that level of thought is beyond them.
Comment by Robert, 21 Sep, 2014
Hello John, This time I'm writing to critique your general methodology - although I'm not particularly concerned about chemtrails, the idea that they can be dismissed out of hand just because no whistleblower has come forward, is absolutely ridiculous, and here's why:
Believe it or not, my father was an engineer and worked on both manned and unmanned missile launches for more than 30 years. When I was a kid, I remember asking him on at least 4 occasions "dad what do you do at work?" - he always got this pained look on his face before gruffly telling me "my job is a secret and I'm not allowed to talk about it!"
After I spent 4 years of my life in the US Army and returned to my hometown, my father actually told me that he was disappointed in me for not going to college and becoming an engineer like him. My response was that I had absolutely no idea what an engineer actually did - all I knew was that it is an extremely stressful job, and since he had raised his children as though he was dirt poor, I would have to be out of my mind to follow in his footsteps.
Although dad was already retired from his aerospace career at this time, he STILL refused to give me even the slightest idea what his job had been. I didn't find out until long after my father died that he was actually a fairly big boss in the Titan missile program with at least 25 engineers working for him. And do you know what all these people did? It's simple, they maintained the giant lead-acid submarine (as in U-boat) batteries that are used as a back-up power source during a Titan missile launch. Obviously, if someone like my father can keep a fairly mundane secret like this from his own family all his life, it isn't hard to keep ANYTHING secret.
As for the supposed fame and fortune that might be gained by an insider willing to reveal Chemtrail secrets, you've got to be kidding! Even though the USA has laws specifically written to protect anyone who reports government fraud or violations of federal law, our current President has gone out of his way to destroy the lives of whistleblowers - the Eric Snowden affair is a perfect example - the man had to flee the country and now lives in hiding in Russia because he KNEW he would be thrown in prison for revealing the wholesale violations of both the Constitution and US law. After seeing the response to Snowden, no one in their right mind would believe that revealing government secrets or wrongdoing is going to bring them fame and fortune.
You know, the more I read your blog, the more I get the idea that you're not really a truth seeker at all, you just like to bully and mock the fundamentalists and new agers. And although I think these folks have some rather silly beliefs, at least I have better things to do than make fun of them.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 29 Sep, 2014
Hi Robert. Regarding chemtrails you say, 'I'm writing to critique your general methodology... the idea that they can be dismissed out of hand just because no whistleblower has come forward, is absolutely ridiculous'. Perhaps you should re-read our article. We don't dismiss chemtrails 'out of hand' solely because 'no whistleblower has come forward'. We dismiss them because there is no evidence for chemtrail claims or an evil conspiracy. As we wrote in the conclusion of our article: Yes, there have been occasions when authorities and governments and people we thought we could trust have lied to us and have even harmed us in some covert experiment or other. There have been real conspiracies, and we must always be skeptical of claims from everybody, not just authorities. But if there is no good evidence of a conspiracy or covert experiment, no good reason to believe we are lab rats, then the rational stance is to ignore baseless claims that we are being manipulated.
A few weeks ago I actually spotted the first vapour trail I have ever seen in my locale, or as the conspiracy theorists would call it, a chemtrail. And since that time I haven't dropped dead or come down with some weird affliction, the paint hasn't peeled off my car and no birds dropped dead from the sky. There has not been a single strange occurrence reported in the media and the hospital hasn't seen an increase of strange maladies. If, as the conspiracy theorists claim, there is real evil intent behind chemtrails and they are causing real observable harm wherever they are seen, why can we never see the evidence for these harmful effects? If there is no evidence then why should anyone take chemtrails seriously?
Sure, chemtrails could be the perfect secret, with no one willing to go public, but using this logic you could argue that Santa Claus might also be the perfect secret, since no elf is willing to be a whistleblower. But even if there isn't a chemtrail whistleblower and we have no idea who is behind the plan or even that there is a plan, we should still see evidence that chemtrails are causing real problems in the world. But we don't see this.
You exhibit true conspiracy theory thinking when you asset that 'Obviously, if someone like my father can keep a fairly mundane secret like this from his own family all his life, it isn't hard to keep ANYTHING secret'. Actually history shows just the opposite, that it's very hard to keep a secret. As we've said elsewhere, only two people knew about the blowjobs Monica Lewinsky gave President Clinton, and even that couldn't be kept a secret. A guy gets a blowjob, which is not at all illegal in Washington although I believe it is in some US States, and half the country screams for justice to be done. Of the one or two people Monica told of the affair, most if not all are willing to reveal what they know. Yet on 9/11 planes are flown into buildings killing around 3000 people, supposedly on the orders of President Bush, and not one of presumably hundreds of people with some knowledge of the plot is outraged enough to speak out. A president secretly getting a blowjob must be thrown from office, yet a president secretly slaughtering thousands of innocent citizens must be protected. And what about the Watergate and Iran-Contra affairs? There is always someone willing or outraged enough to spill the beans. There was Wikileaks whistleblower Bradley Manning and even you give the example of whistleblower Eric Snowden, although I assume you mean Edward Snowden. He went over to the enemy, not over Americans secretly killing other Americans, but over 'violations of both the Constitution and US law'. So why are there no 'Snowdens' prepared to reveal that Americans are killing their fellow Americans, spraying their own communities and killing their neighbours? If a blowjob needs to be exposed but not mass murder, then you Americans are truly screwed up regarding right and wrong.
You finish by claiming that we are just out 'to bully and mock the fundamentalists and new agers' and that unlike us, you 'have better things to do than make fun of them'. We are not out to bully anyone, we are simply trying to expose flawed thinking on their part. If their claims and actions come across as laughable, then that's their problem. I confess that we do occasionally mock some ridiculous claims that conspiracy theorists, religious fundamentalists and New Agers make, but again, they set themselves up for ridicule. And sometimes it is enjoyable to make fun of what people say and do in public, look at the excellent 'Daily Show with Jon Stewart' and 'The Colbert Report'.
Comment by Anonymous-18, 26 Feb, 2015
In your chemtrails section you mention the belief that HAARP is capable of modifying weather and causing earthquakes. The entire basis of this is from stuff written by a Brazillian "physicist" named Fran De Aquino. His web site is: http://www.frandeaquino.org/
De Aquino is a self-styled physics "genius" who has created a unified field theory of electromagnetism, including a gravity shielding "theory" that he says proves that the ULF radio signals from HAARP is capable of generating a form of anti-gravity called "gravity shielding" that can modify the atmosphere and generate earthquakes.
That's it. Of course to believers De Aquino is a "genius", when for world of physics, he is just playing games that have been played since the 1920s, predicting phenomena that nobody has been able to verify.
HAARP is being shut down 2014-2015. No doubt there will be the belief that it continues to be operated, or that there are other HAARPs out there. Mythology marches on.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 26 Feb, 2015
As you say, even if HAARP shuts down, the belief that it has simply gone underground because of unwelcome public scrutiny will continue, that is the nature of conspiracy theories. They don't stop, they only become more convoluted.
Comment by Anonymous-19, 13 Apr, 2015
Then what is the 'shit' they are spraying you schmuck. Who aid you for your bullshit
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 14 Apr, 2015
I'm sorry, but your well reasoned arguments, well documented evidence and carefully crafted insults, voluminous and erudite as they are, still fail to convince us that 'shit' is raining down upon us, or as Chicken Little, one of your fellow conspiracy theorists claimed, the sky is falling! Perhaps you should come out from under your bed, take another look at your evidence and try a new approach to get through to us schmucks. Hint: write slowly.
Comment by Anonymous-20, 19 Aug, 2015
Thank you. i have a family member that shows these every day pics of sky's saying look what there doing today.....she's also a vaccination theorist....wow.....if there trying to kill us there's better way lol...were living longer than ever.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 20 Aug, 2015
Yes indeed, it's like they're trying to kill us with kindness! They must be the most pathetic evil villains ever!
Comment by Anonymous-21, 15 Oct, 2015
It is clear Chem trails primary purpose is not to reduce solar radiation, but to enhance HAARP radio wave transmission and
reception...in this (expensive) way they can create sunamis,hurricanes and drouts. The chemicals also dummy down, so we get lost in the process.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 15 Oct, 2015
I'm not sure that many believers in chemtrails would argue that their primacy purpose is to reduce solar radiation. How would that help 'The Powers That Be' achieve world domination? Likewise I can't see how deviously creating the odd 'natural' disaster helps either. And if the evil ones can create these tsunamis, hurricanes and droughts at will worldwide, why do these events still only ever happen at locations where they've always happened, and no more frequently than would be expected? My point is, why do these people cunningly create disasters to make it appear as if they're completely natural? If they're working to a plan to affect the entire world, why don't we see hurricanes and droughts appearing where they've never happened before historically? Why spend all this money to create a hurricane when if they'd just waited a little longer nature would have likely done the job for them? And how does damaging a trailer park in the US or a beach resort in Tonga help them with their devious goals? Are they in the international reconstruction business? But surely creating the disaster costs them much more than what they'll make repairing the damage? And the damage does get repaired, and soon these areas are back in business, as if the disaster had never happened. So what's the point? What have they really gained by creating their disaster-causing chemtrails? Do they just like killing people?
You seem to have got a little lost in the logic of your argument, so am I right in thinking that you've noticed quite a few chemtrails where you live? I'm afraid it may already be too late for you. But then Homer Simpson still manages to lead what he views as an enjoyable life sans the intellectual pursuits, so perhaps it's not as depressing as you first thought.
Comment by Anonymous-22, 27 Oct, 2015
And who are you? And who pays you to deny the obvious. A yank shit Kicker or government stooge ?
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 28 Oct, 2015
I'm sorry, but if I told you who I was then I'd have to kill you. Well not me personally, but the people that pay me to write what I write. But seriously, why do you demand to know who I am, while at the same time conveniently neglecting to reveal who you are, and why rational, intelligent people should take your apparently delusion claims seriously? It's typical of you paranoid lot that believe secret, powerful, evil forces are out to kill you, that you can never be bothered to produce even a snippet of evidence to support your claims. Never any evidence, just insults. You lot argue that they are employing terrifying weapons against us, and yet we're all still alive, and completely oblivious that there was even an attempt on our lives. Why is that? Why are these chemtrail killers so incompetent and why can't we even see their failed attempts at attacking us? Comments from the previous poster say that they're trying to kill us with 'sunamis, hurricanes and drouts', and you tell me that I'm denying the obvious, that apparently these things are really happening and they happen just after the sky is carpeted with chemtrails. And yet where I live no one has even seen these chemtrails, let alone the accompanying deadly disasters. Is everyone in denial, stumbling around in a disaster zone and pretending all is well? Is the great majority of the world's population delusional, all hit by chemtrail disasters but blindly denying that anything terrible has happened?
Or is it more likely that those few that see a strange cloud or an ordinary and harmless jet in the sky immediately jump to the silly conclusion that dark forces are out to get them? But what evidence is there for these nefarious attacks? We know the governments of several countries can rain death and destruction down on whomever they choose through the use of armed drones, cruise missiles, stealth fighter jets, high altitude bombers and toxic sprays etc, and yet this doesn't happen beyond war zones. We know that ordinary governments can kill with ordinary weapons, we see the evidence on the news every day, and yet you nutters ask us to believe that even more powerful groups with far more sophisticated weapons are causing deaths on a far greater scale, and yet these atrocities with their huge lose of life never make the news. Why not? Why don't we notice the suffering all around us, our loved ones and neighbours dying mysteriously or at least becoming even more stupid than they were yesterday? Recall that the previous poster asserted that 'The chemicals also dummy down, so we get lost in the process'. Even the people I know personally that believe they are being sprayed by chemtrails aren't getting any more stupid. Certainly no brighter, but no worse either, and they aren't dying either, not by some mysterious disease or by a natural disaster. It seems that the only place that chemtrails exist is in the minds of chemtrail believers. The rest of the world is oblivious to the harm caused by chemtrails, or is it that billions and billions of us have been bribed to keep quiet as our families and friends die around us? And even if some of us were to accept their blood money, how would those few extra dollars stop us falling prey to the deadly effect of the chemtrails that they're spraying over our neighbourhood? How would that toxic chemtrail or chemtrail-caused tsunami know to leave me alone and just kill my neighbours?
You asked: 'And who pays you to deny the obvious'? I could ask what evidence you have that I'm being paid to make you people look foolish, but then of course we all know that you lot don't need evidence to make claims. You're like a kid demanding how I can deny the existence of Santa Claus when they obviously got toys from him last Christmas!
And think about this. If the chemtrail conspiracy is real, that dark forces are out to kill us or enslave us or whatever, why are they willing to kill untold numbers worldwide and pay me to keep quiet, and yet they won't touch you and your fellow chemtrail believers that are out to expose their evil plan? They apparently have no problem killing my neighbours who are oblivious to their plotting, and yet these heartless killers won't kill you and your outspoken friends even though you risk
ruining their entire plan. Why are they afraid of you? Why do they leave you all alone? Why do these evil chemtrail killers risk being exposed by a handful of people that know the terrible truth when a few litres of chemtrail spray could silence
you all for good? What's a few more deaths? Since you clearly believe you've experienced many of these chemtrails, why are you still alive and still in possession of a rudimentary intellect sufficient to surf the Internet and insult those of us that don't see strange clouds as evil. Maybe you're one of a handful that are somehow immune to the effects of chemtrails, but then why don't they use some old-fashioned method to silence you, like a sniper? Or a cyanide pill in your takeaways? For the life of me I can't understand why they haven't yet taken you out when you clearly want to expose their evil machinations to take over the world. So watch your back. Don't answer the door. And make yourself a tinfoil hat. Don't buy a store-bought one, they have a hidden surveillance chip embedded in them.
Comment by Anonymous-22, 29 Oct, 2015
Its called geoengineering .as if you didnt know!!!
Going on since the late forties. ,as you also know.
He who controls the weather decides who gets rain or not . convenient for powers who choose which nation gets crop failure.
Back fired in California though or has it???
Lying greedy cheats and cover up merchants like you have limited time.
Millions of us are on to the plan.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 30 Oct, 2015
Yes, I have heard of geoengineering, just as I've also heard of crystal healing, psychic surgery, water divining and exorcism. But just because there are people out there doing these things doesn't mean they actually work. I've seen no evidence that any individual, organisation or government, secret or otherwise, is able to control the weather, and have been controlling the weather 'since the late forties'. Of course people have been trying to influence 'who gets rain or not' for a lot longer than just the 1940s. For example, think of native Americans and their rain dances, and some people say that killing a spider makes it rain. The reality is that neither dancing, spider sacrifice nor chemtrails control the weather, even though some people think they do.
Since you claim to be 'on to the plan', perhaps you could reveal, with supporting evidence of course, just which power is controlling the weather and deciding 'which nation gets crop failure'. And don't say the Americans, since why would they attack themselves? Since there is no nation on Earth that hasn't suffered from the likes of droughts, floods, snow storms, earthquakes and stupid citizens, just who are these powers that are geoengineering the planet? Are you implying aliens?
You argue that 'Lying greedy cheats and cover up merchants like you have limited time', but is this logical? If evil powers are indeed controlling the weather by geoengineering the planet, along with reducing human fertility and dumbing down citizens, why would they target people like me that you claim are actively helping them keep their plan secret? Surely it is outspoken people like you that are desperately trying to scuttle their plans that are in real and immediate danger? Can't you see that? It's you that keeps seeing chemtrails above where you live, my skies are clear, no chemtrails whatsoever. What does that tell you? They're coming for you, not me.
Comment by Anonymous-23, 14 Nov, 2015
If you are the one that pen's down this stuff, You need your head read. I have never encountered an Idiot like you in regards to chemtrails. You got to be kidding if you think that straight lines in the sky that linger there for many hours are clouds or contrails. You either are a total moron or you are related to that idiot Nick Smith. But in saying, you are of course in title to your silly beliefs.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 15 Nov, 2015
What is it with you conspiracy theorists? Always with the insults, plenty of time for that it seems, but not one of you can be bothered to offer a single snippet of evidence to support your fanciful allegations. Don't you even want to try and convince me I'm wrong? You don't mention a single link to scientific research that has verified that your evil chemtrails are real, not even from a mad scientist. Just the insults. If everyone listened to your, I'm reluctant to call it an argument, let's call it a rant, we'd still be living in caves and fearful of our own shadows. Get back to me when you've crawled out from wherever you're hiding from the toxic spray and have found some real evidence. Your iPhone and a Google search should work from under a bed, unless the chemtrails are jamming the signal. Good luck.
Comment by Mikaere, 16 Nov, 2015
Hi John. Great thinking from the chemtrail merchants! Best way to cover the earth with chemicals? Release at high altitude so they'll linger for many hours in a straight line. Optimum dispersal. Release them in daylight for everyone to see...
Seems like the quality of the insults is deteriorating as well.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 17 Nov, 2015
Hi Mikaere. I think you're being rather generous in describing what these morons do as 'thinking'. But seriously, you're quite right, how effective could the toxic sprays be if they simply linger in the sky, and then only over a minuscule fraction of the Earth? There's none where I live. And even the morons that do see these so-called chemtrails, strangely these 'straight lines in the sky' don't seem to affect them at all. No disaster or nasty illness befalls them, they simply wander inside and use social media to warn the world about the scary cloud that they saw. Why are they so afraid of them? They're as ignorant as a medieval peasant, and like those peasants whose silly fears led them to burn witches at the stake, these superstitious fools would do likewise if they had it in their power. Let's hope that they never become radicalised like groups such as Islamic State.
Comment by Stuart, 06 Dec, 2015
Hi John. I have just returned from driving two thousand kilometres from Brisbane to Adelaide — most of the way was desolate almost completely unpopulated countryside. Looking up I did notice a number of "chemtrails" wastefully spewing chemicals onto the unpopulated land. Mind-you, there were quite a number of dead Kangaroos on the road — maybe the chemtrails had a detrimental effect on them making them run out onto the road in front of passing traffic!
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 07 Dec, 2015
Initially I thought you might have been onto something there Stuart, perhaps toxins in the "chemtrails" are negatively influencing the behaviour of kangaroos, in a similar way to those parasites that take over the brains of ants and rats etc and effectively make them commit suicide.
But I now think I see a slight flaw in your reasoning. Back here in NZ I was driving in Canterbury recently, around Darfield, on both main roads and back roads, and I also noticed some "chemtrails", and yet not a single dead kangaroo on the road. Not one. Surely if chemtrails caused kangaroos to become suicidal then I would have spotted some? Thus I suspect something else, maybe Australia's immigrant policies or the decline in intelligent TV programming, drove those kangaroos to despair and caused them to throw themselves in front of fast moving vehicles.
But seriously, you're quite right, if these chemtrails are expensive toxins designed for some nefarious goal, why waste spraying them over vast areas where apparently the only casualties are going to be innocent kangaroos? What threat are they to the reptilian aliens? And why in Canterbury are the chemtrails not having any effect whatsoever? No mysterious livestock suicides, no violent earthquakes, no outbreak of zombies, nothing! Why, it's almost as if they aren't harmful at all.
Comment by Mikaere, 07 Dec, 2015
The 'kangaroo' dialogue has made me think seriously about chemtrails. We have about five trails a day over our place — think there must be a way-point close by. Man those chemicals must be pretty weak or perhaps I've been identified as needing special treatment. I wonder what 'they're' trying to control or eradicate — my atheism perhaps? Then again, probably not, as I'm surrounded by religious people and they're not decked out in hazard suits. Please chemtrail people, now that your presence is known, why not tell us what you're delivering? Oh and while you're at it, could you please include something to control the creeping buttercup and stop the cruel methods of killing cattle.
Thank you, sky-pilots
Comment by Mikaere, 07 Dec, 2015
Oops, I've just seen the flaw in my reasoning about hazard suits — the chemtrails must be there to stop lucid thinking...
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 08 Dec, 2015
Mikaere, based on what you and Stuart said, I'm curious as to why you're being sprayed, as are parts of Canterbury and even some kangaroos, but my locale is not. Why are these planes and their toxic trails conspicuous by their absence?
Do they consider me so important to their plan that I'm not to be harmed or so insignificant that I can be ignored? Should I be pleased or insulted? I wish that the conspiracy theory people that claim to understand the deep, dark secrets behind chemtrails would explain, with supporting evidence, why my locale is strictly hands-off, and what you and the kangaroos have done to draw their ire.
Comment by Mikaere, 08 Dec, 2015
Hi John. Could it possibly be that I have made an egregious mistake and what I assumed to be toxic chemtrails were merely contrails? I am mortified that I would make such a basic mistake and would assume that worthy chemtrail believers would not be as silly as me.
Or perhaps the chemicals released over your locality are invisible and have no odour — a bit like homeopathic liquids? You could be the recipient of a new generation of chemicals which won't be so obvious like the previous ones. I'd imagine that these would not affect kangaroos, which would explain why there are no dead ones near you. You may find that they have killed a few possums though...
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 09 Dec, 2015
Oh thanks very much Mikaere, you've just ruined my upcoming Summer Solstice celebrations. How can I now frolic naked around the barbecue with nary a care as per pagan tradition with this new paranoia over Chemtrails 2.0? Since of course your argument makes good sense. The sprayers of chemtrails will have realised that some people are on to them, and would naturally have been working feverishly to produce a new generation of invisible chemtrails that are far more selective in what they target. And I suspect you're correct, that they have killed off the local possum population, as I haven't seen or heard one for ages. No tigers about either, so they must be susceptible as well. And yes, I think we must 'assume that worthy chemtrail believers' couldn't be so stupid as to confuse innocent contrails with a terrorist attack in the form of biological warfare. Just to be safe I'm writing this from within a large sealed, self-contained plastic bubble.
Comment by Brian, 21 Mar, 2016
I moved to Palm Desert, California in the Coachella Valley that is East of Los Angeles and North of San Diego in May of 2015. I have been observing the night sky while in my hot tub four to five nights per week.
Normally there are no Chemtrails at night with exceptions that I have noticed as a definite pattern.
When there are rings around the Moon at night from November to April, those events are precursors to rain on the coast and in the desert.
Quite often when there is a ring around the Moon, Chemtrails fill the sky and disperse the ring.
Over the next few days there is no rain.
When the few times Chemtrails do not disperse the ring around the Moon, normal rain patterns occur.
Tonight there was a ring around a half Moon and Chemtrails filled the sky.
During the daytime, the skies of the desert are filled with Chemtrails. Once I saw a formation of four aircraft flying West to East dispersing Chemtrails and numerous other single planes that clouded the sky for the remainder of the day.
Does seem by manipulating the moisture patterns in the Coachella Valley, a drought pattern for the entire Southern California, Nevada and Arizona regions can be created.
When I am in my hot tub I Moon the pilots or the drone operators of our destruction.
The early Chemtrail missions had to have pilots but common sense dictates the flights have to be mostly drone operated by computers thus providing much tighter security and less public awareness.
There are no whistleblowers in the skies.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 21 Mar, 2016
Sorry Brian, but what you're likely seeing in the sky are vapour trails/contrails, not chemtrails. Chemtrails come from the same box as Santa's sleigh and flying saucers, and by that I mean, while some people sincerely swear that they've seen them, they are mistaken because they're not actually real. Likewise, comparing the 'early Chemtrail missions' to the current missions that you say are now mostly performed by drones, is little different to asserting that Santa's sleigh and flying saucers have both upgraded to matter-antimatter hyperdrives, from magic reindeer and nuclear fusion respectively. It's all just fanciful thinking.
Maybe the real reason that desert states are experiencing drought conditions is that far too many people are wasting water filling their hot tubs and swimming pools, and watering lawns and foliage that is utterly unsuitable for your climate. I seriously don't think that factions of your government are hell bent on spending millions of dollars just to make your desert as dry as a... umm ... desert.
Comment by Anonymous-24, 24 Mar, 2016
"When I am in my hot tub I Moon the pilots or the drone operators of our destruction."
Piss take. Surely?
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 25 Mar, 2016
One would hope that Brian realises that mooning the pilots or drone operators would be futile since they would be far too distant to notice, and unlike surveillance aircraft, they wouldn't even be looking. So perhaps the mooning, or his comment about, was made in jest, but I have no reason to suspect that his overall opinion isn't sincere. I've long since learnt that just because many of these stories about conspiracy theories sound like they're part of some big practical joke, those that spin them, in my experience, are always sincere. In my early days I used to laugh and say, 'Oh good one. You had me going there for a minute', and they'd always reply, 'No ... I'm serious!' Now I just laugh on the inside, then try and explain why they've been fooled.
Comment by Anonymous-25, 20 Apr, 2016
So, conspiracy theorists are the enemy according to your site...really funny. How much are getting paid to spread untruth? Lol
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 20 Apr, 2016
No, we've never said that 'conspiracy theorists are the enemy', perhaps you should actually read what we wrote. The term 'enemy' suggests that we feel hatred towards conspiracy theorists, that we mean to harm them and that we see them as a 'hostile power or force', which of course is all totally false. We don't hate conspiracy theorists, if anything, we feel sorry for you. Nor do we view you as a threat, since your irrational outbursts are ineffectual and you are little more than an occasionally annoying irritant. The 19th century had those, like Arthur Conan Doyle, author of 'Sherlock Holmes', who argued that fairies were real, this century has you guys.
It always amazes us that you conspiracy theorists invariably jump to the laughable conclusion that if someone has a different opinion to you, then clearly some secret and obscenely rich organisation is paying us to lie. I say they're rich since the great majority of the world's educated folk dismiss chemtrails as nonsense, meaning by your logic that they must all have been paid to lie. And yet not one of us, no scientist, no politician etc, has refused to get on board with this lie. None of us have gone to the media or the authorities to expose that we were offered a meagre bribe to lie about an ongoing scheme to poison the planet, which of course includes us. We all apparently took the money, and yet none of us appear any richer, so the bribe must have been truly pathetic in value. We apparently sold out humanity for the price of a couple of pizzas, pizzas we may never even get to enjoy if we get sprayed next. Your accusation of our immorality is quite insulting.
And what 'evidence' do you produce that deliberately sprayed chemtrails are being used to destroy life on Earth? Nothing but silly videos on YouTube that can be found alongside some celebrity flashing her tits and a kitten playing the piano. The end of the world is nigh, and you lot choose not to go to the scientific community or the world's media or to the authorities with your 'evidence', but to post it on YouTube where it must compete with tits and kittens, which are both far more interesting and non-threatening. If you truly believe that people are out to get you, then convince some scientists, they can't have all been paid off, and then get back to us with their evidence.
Comment by Anonymous-26, 19 Feb, 2017
If chemtrails ... not a word BTW lol, has been (one of the beliefs) trying to kill us since 1992, they, whoever (they are)... Are Not doing a very good job!
In fact such a poor job that people are living Much Much longer these days. so all the so called evidence that they, being Jeff rense the major anti-Semitic devil he is, is all and I have debunked all.
One example, that a woman claims to have collected the dust residue off her car. If that WERE the case, she could have had her chemical dust tested To see if it had chemicals and bariums' in it soo I think it is some silly people and following like sheep type, When there are soo many other real crisis, like global warming, depleted ozone, overcrowding, made made disasters wiping out entire species for greed and money tracking, again greed destroying our earths foundation.
The contrails, a real word, lasts longer because of the poisoned atmosphere and pollution, smog and methane gases from US the largest contributors China second in line
Yes once again the Earth is flat, it is difficult to believe, in this day and age that people are as ignorant as they were back 2 hundred years ago, following like sheep to a made up word and a made up disease, megellons, something like that again not a word, in the real English dictionary
It just baffles me
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 20 Feb, 2017
Needless to say, belief in chemtrails baffles us too.
Comment by Anonymous-27, 05 Apr, 2017
when you were young, watching the sky, watching jets and planes fly, through the beautiful blue...did you not see that speed obviously produced this "chemtrail"? not a spraying, you idiots, but a burning, like that which takes place when reentering the atmosphere. once you get to a certain speed, you have this effect in the sky. you people are crazy. place yourself where you belong. an asylum. if you want to know who is spraying, go to syria.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 05 Apr, 2017
While we agree that so-called chemtrails are not being sprayed, we must disagree with your view that they are 'a burning, like that which takes place when reentering the atmosphere'. What people are seeing are contrails, harmless trails of water vapour from jet exhausts that some jets create under certain atmospheric conditions. The burning that is seen on spacecraft reentry occurs at the front of the craft, not the rear.
Comment by Anonymous-28, 18 Aug, 2018
Sorry pal you are in total denial. I live in Israel and I've seen planes flying around in the clear blue sky releasing something in the high atmosphere. After about 1 hour the blue sky is gone covered in what appears to be a hazy cloud. I have seen this on numerous occasions. I don't treat this as a conspiracy theory as I don't know what is actually being released but for sure something is happening.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 18 Aug, 2018
What do you mean exactly by your comment: 'planes flying around in the clear blue sky releasing something in the high atmosphere'. Are these planes flying around in circles or back and forth in some sort of deliberate dispersal pattern, or are they merely flying overhead in a straight line and then gone, like a passenger plane might do? You say they are flying in the high atmosphere, but no one flies high when they are spraying since they would have no control over where their spray eventually lands, if it lands at all, since the wind and air currents would greatly dilute the spray and blow it miles off course. That's why the likes of crop dusters fly mere metres from the ground. And what is actually being released behind these high flying planes you see, might it just be the expected water vapour that is seen in vapour trails and that sometimes then disperses into a hazy cloud? You shouldn't leap to chemtrails just because you've likely seen ordinary vapour trails, anymore than you should spot a fluffy cloud and insist that they're there just so angels can sit on them.
And if your government is deliberately and continuously spraying your region, what is the result? Have cancer rates suddenly rocketed, or are inhabitants suddenly dying of some mysterious illness? Or is the population becoming increasingly stupid or more docile? Are you getting major earthquakes after every spraying, or is it raining frogs or have the rivers turned red?
I don't understand why people can see a strange vapour trail behind planes and will immediately believe the explanation provided by the moronic, scientifically-illiterate conspiracy theorists as to what that vapour is, and not the brilliant engineers and scientists that actually built the planes, and whose family and friends live beneath the trails too.
Get back to us when your neighbours are dying of something other than primitive religious intolerance, when you have some actual evidence that evil is falling from the skies.
Comment by Anonymous-29, 06 Jan, 2019
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 06 Jan, 2019
On the topic of chemtrails, I'm not really sure what you mean by writing 'Conspiracy fact', and then linking to a talk the CIA Director gave to the Council on Foreign Relations in 2016. I assume you're not some CIA groupie that spends all your waking hours reading documents of intelligence briefings, so I'm guessing some chemtrail website or video has instead claimed that chemtrails are real, and as proof, has pointed you to this document where the CIA director apparently admits that atmospheric spraying is a real thing. Of course, he does nothing of the sort. In the CIA director's talk, he mentions, 'a wide range of breakthroughs that potentially could extend life expectancy, such as new methods of fighting cancer and a greater understanding of the ageing process', but it's the next paragraph
that I presume you wanted me to look at:
'Another example is the array of technologies—often referred to collectively as geoengineering—that potentially could help reverse the warming effects of global climate change. One that has gained my personal attention is stratospheric aerosol injection, or SAI, a method of seeding the stratosphere with particles that can help reflect the sun's heat, in much the same way that volcanic eruptions do.
Geoengineering and stratospheric aerosol injection, or SAI, are what chemtrail believers insist are the technical names that scientists and government officials give to the technology that creates chemtrails. And yes, geoengineering and stratospheric aerosol injection are ideas that are being considered by experts to combat climate change. But the important thing to grasp is that they are merely ideas at this stage. Just as the CIA director talks about, 'a wide range of breakthroughs that potentially could extend life expectancy', meaning that an extended life expectancy hasn't been realised yet, he also notes that geoengineering, 'potentially could help reverse the warming effects of global climate change'. Note that he uses the words 'potentially' and 'could' and states that, 'As promising as it may be, moving forward on SAI would raise a number of challenges for our government and for the international community.' This is not the CIA admitting that they're already using geoengineering, they have not moved forward, it's merely the director noting that he has heard that scientists are considering the idea as a possible way of combating climate change. He also notes that before geoengineering was tried, 'a number of challenges for our government and for the international community' would first have to be overcome.
An SAI program could limit global temperature increases, reducing some risks associated with higher temperatures and providing the world economy additional time to transition from fossil fuels. The process is also relatively inexpensive—the National Research Council estimates that a fully deployed SAI program would cost about $10 billion yearly.
As promising as it may be, moving forward on SAI would raise a number of challenges for our government and for the international community. On the technical side, greenhouse gas emission reductions would still have to accompany SAI to address other climate change effects, such as ocean acidification, because SAI alone would not remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere.'
No one is denying that geoengineering and SAI is being discussed by experts, what is denied is that these methods are currently being covertly used as a weapon to poison specific populations, create earthquakes and extreme weather, cause infertility and control minds etc.
And since those that believe in the reality of chemtrails claim that it's a conspiracy that 'The Powers That Be' are desperate to keep secret, then it makes no sense that they'd let the director of the CIA publicly reveal their evil plan. I mean, wouldn't the CIA director know it was supposed to be a secret? You know it's a secret, I know it's a secret, so why is he so ignorant about chemtrails?
Comment by Stuart, 30 Jan, 2019
I was just reading an interesting book entitled 'big questions in Science' written in 2002 and I came across one paragraph concerning what we now call 'chemtrails' that I thought was interesting — to quote:
'Experiments dating from 1948 show that just a few aircraft distributing a disease such as smallpox in aerosol form could infect almost everybody in England'.
Maybe this is where Chemtrails believers started their idea; mind you, the idea of poisonous and mind-controlling chemical sprays from planes is not impossible. Agent Orange in Vietnam was is a good example of mass chemical drops. The next paragraph of the article I read was also interesting though not to do with Chemtrails:
'The world's end might also come about by accident. Recently (2002), a genetically modified mousepox killed every infected mouse without exception. It had been created by Australian researches by mistake!'
Keep up with the good work.
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 31 Jan, 2019
Hi Stuart. I seriously doubt that most chemtrail believers will have read any serious books with the word 'science' in the title. I recently read an interesting book that looked at chemtrails, among other things, called 'UFOs, Chemtrails, and Aliens: What Science Says', by Donald R. Prothero and Timothy D. Callahan, and it is arguments found in books such as this that chemtrail believers are utterly ignorant of. While aircraft vapour trails/contrails — which believers falsely identify as chemtrails — have been around for some 70 years (albeit not as widespread), surprisingly the chemtrail conspiracy only surfaced in the 1990s.
The fact that contrails are not new is something that is unknown by most believers and denied by the rest. After all, if they've been spraying us for many decades now, and whether it's for mind control, fertility control, weather control, earthquake control — whatever it's for — it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe it's time they moved onto Plan B?
And as you point out Stuart, we most definitely have the proven ability to spray chemicals from planes. As a kid I even experienced this first hand, flying in a topdressing plane over our farm (or crop dusting as they call it elsewhere). This is a point believers miss, since skeptics are not saying that governments don't have the ability to spray us with toxic chemicals, clearly they do, what we're saying is that there is no good evidence that they are actually doing so. When planes deliberately spray chemicals, now and in the past, they always have provable and noticeable effects, whether it's a plant fertiliser or a defoliant like Agent Orange or a bio-weapon such as the toxic chemicals used in the Middle East by the likes of Iraq and Syria. But with chemtrails there is no evidence that they even exist, let alone evidence that they are having an effect of some sort.
From the pathetic Tom Cruise movie 'Jerry Maguire' we get the quote, 'Show me the money!', and skeptics need to employ a similar (although less annoying) phrase when confronted with extraordinary claims: 'Show me the evidence!'
Comment by Anonymous-30, 16 Nov, 2020
Hi yes it is all true
The CHEMTRAILS are Real and if u organised propagandist think u can post a whole lot of organised lies and we the people are going to kept on believing u well think again
There is an old saying you can fool some of the people some of the time but you cannot fool all the people all of the time ' everyone is waking up to your crap now
You are all starting to get a bit predictable ha ha
Comment by the 'Silly Beliefs' Team, 16 Nov, 2020
Not surprisingly, and just like your flawed belief in chemtrails, you have got that old saying wrong. It was Abraham Lincoln who said, 'You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time'. Clearly you are one of those people that can be fooled all the time. At least when it comes to chemtrails.
But thank you for noting that our debunking information on chemtrails is organised; we'll take that as a compliment. Not that I believe you actually read much of it, or if you did, you struggled to understand the arguments. All you seemed to have taken from our article is that we don't believe chemtrails are real. So well done, at least you grasped the general thrust of our article, but as organised as you believe it to be, if it didn't even make one claim that annoyed you, one claim that you know is wrong, one claim that you need to challenge us over, then maybe we have failed to state our case in a way that the ordinary person can understand.
Listen up. Here's how a debate works. Beyond simply stating that you disagree with some claim, you are expected to explain why you disagree. You do this by exposing flaws in your opponent's arguments, and by offering arguments and evidence that support your side of the debate. You claim that 'everyone is waking up to your crap now', which seems to imply everyone has actually read our 'crap' and have easily understood why it's all lies and propaganda. You're implying that you have developed good arguments for why chemtrails are real, since surely you wouldn't believe without good arguments ... right? So why don't you expose our ‘lies' for the benefit of those that have yet to wake up? Otherwise your current approach is as worthless as a child saying, 'Hi yes it is all true. Santa Claus is Real', and then leaving the room, refusing to take questions.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have robust evidence that supports your belief in chemtrails, that you're not just believing on a silly feeling, so why then are you not throwing that evidence in my face? Why do I have to beg you to tell me what you know, and what will show me to be mistaken? Why do you write to tell me I'm wrong, but aren't prepared to drive the stake home and actually show me why I'm wrong? You've already done the damage by questioning my worldview, instilling a sliver of doubt, so why not do the decent thing by putting me out of my misery? Show me the truth. Help me wake up.
Or is it you and your cohorts that are posting lies, like ... umm ... 'The CHEMTRAILS are Real'. I, and indeed the world, await your response, one dripping with evidence.
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